Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Is clssical music racist?


FiddlinJim
 Share

Recommended Posts

It seems to me that we've come as far as we have mostly because people have never eased up. Sure, there's been lots of progress and at least some wolf-crying, but most of the ageism, racism, sexism, and so forth is still alive and well and living all over the place. It's not hard to look around us and see that things are still out-of-balance. Yet people have been saying "It's over, shut up about it" ever since Brown. It's not over. We can see that it's not over just by looking around. Lots and lots of progress, but still no equality. Even though it's been 150 years since black people were released from slavery in the USA.

It's not over.

[This message has been edited by Fiddling Around (edited 03-06-2002).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 82
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

quote:

Originally posted by Violinflu:

I saw a recital given by the winner of the Sphinx competition junior division at camp last summer.

As a result of winning the competition, she was performing on a Guadagnini, and the week before she had soloed in Mozart's D Major violin concerto with the National Symphony Orchestra.

There were at LEAST 7 or 8 people of similar age, but not similar ethnicity, at that camp who could easily play circles around this girl. I don't think any of THEM have free use of a Guadagnini, let alone are making debuts with major symphony orchestras.

This girl is in for a surprise when she graduates from her private high school and enters a conservatory - she probably considers herself at the forefront of her generation of players, and she will be shocked to find herself in the middle of the pack. That's not fair to her.

To assume that minorities have a handicap just for being minorities is an insult to those very minorities. More valid in terms of creating handicaps are economic inequalities. However, as has already been pointed out, these inequalities are practically built in to classical music - they are manifested in expensive instruments, expensive teachers, and valuable time spent practicing.

At such a high level of competition, economic differences tend to be less pronounced - in other words, to be competitive in the Sphinx, you need to have a good instrument, good teacher, and lots of time to practice - just like any other big competition. You also need to have dark skin - unlike other big competitions.

Fair or not, for all of the bad blood it produces, I think the Sphinx competition is a bad idea.

Jesse

I also think that the Sphinx Competition is a bad idea, but I have to disagree with you about that girl you were talking about. I'm good friends with her, and I know for a fact that she has done other competitions besides Sphinx which are not racially exclusive. Most of the people competing in the Sphinx Competition are at the level where they know what's out there- They participate in other competitions/ensembles in which they actually have contact with musicians of other races! (IMAGINE THAT! :) ) Having said that, I must defend the aforementioned young lady by saying that she in no way considers herself to be the "at the forefront of her generation of players."

I myself am a Korean violinist attending public high school- I've never once competed against only Koreans or only Asians or only anything. I never really gave much thought to the Sphinx Competition, but after reading this post, I'd have to say that I think it defeats the whole purpose of trying to integrate different races into classical music- Like I said, the people who are doing the Sphinx Competition are people who are already principals in their youth orchestra or studying with a famous teacher or whatnot. I suppose that I'm for supporting programs where underpriveleged minorities can receive instruction, but that's only because those reach large numbers of people- the Sphinx Competition only has one winner each year.

[This message has been edited by cremona (edited 03-06-2002).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has been here said that this belongs in the Soapbox, well I disagree!

Never mind about the Sphinx, that is not the issue here. In fact if it got one creative soul from the so called minorities - in my world that really means a person with a song - into the right lifepath then it is more than worth the effort.

Considering my earliest encounters with great Folk talent, Blues, inspired me as much as any other thing I see this 'classical music' age as the one that does not know how to deal with true creative energy, the one that buries it's head in the sand, the one that cannot be like the age it apes: precisely because it is recreating and not creating, the one that babbles on and on instead of listening to the it's own song and the one that could not or would not accept itself. In short the modern Classical movement would not only be ignored by the reborn Bachs, Haydns etc it would not even be remotely relevant to them!

They lived in their time - it too had lots of problems -, my question to you is this, can we? Can we accept our 'song'. Can we incorporate into our legacy the Reels, the Breakdowns, the Rants, the Blues, the chaos of our time? Can we incorporate into our compositions even one little thing of it all? Can we do for an Orchestral setting what Hendrix did for the Electric Guitar?

What is the soul of our time? What is it's real legacy today? Is it Jazz? Is it Rock? Is is Folk?

Second question what if any are the best songs in our time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun:

... If the idea of Sphinx is so intolerable as to cause feelings of despondency and discrimination, then you've gotta broaden your horizons and PLAY THE MUSIC more.

I'm not sure I see the correlation here.

What does one's social ideas or opinions have to do with "playing the music more"? And what does that mean? It's such a broad statement. How can you tell some one to "play the music more"? Are you meaning "play from the heart"?

roman

[This message has been edited by roman (edited 03-08-2002).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Edited

quote:

Originally posted by toasty:

...They lived in their time - it too had lots of problems -, my question to you is this, can we? Can we accept our 'song'. Can we incorporate into our legacy the Reels, the Breakdowns, the Rants, the Blues, the chaos of our time? Can we incorporate into our compositions even one little thing of it all? ...

Off topic, but still - Incorporating the spirit of all this music is fine. However incorporating the music itself is in my opinion a dead end which could turn everything into Musak. I play traditional Scottish folk music mostly, and in the 19th Century that was heavily influenced by Classical music, rather to its detriment. I don't think I'd be doing it any favours by arranging Fur Elise as a strathspey..

If Joe Soap hears a new piece of 'classical' music relevant to him he'll listen to it. However Joe mostly doesn't hear it. Until very recently the classical music and fine arts worlds had backed themselves into an inaccessible and incestuous back-scratching world of their own making which was irrelevant to 99% of humanity and said nothing to them. Here in UK that appears to be changing, partly due to Classic FM, a music station which has classical charts and plays 'accessible' classical music to quite a large audience. That station must have introduced more people to an interest in classical music in the last ten years than all the classical music snobs in history ever put off it. Note that a radio station did this, not the classical music establishment. With art, there are signs that the 'concept art' movement is wearing very thin and is becoming unconvincing (to those who were ever convinced). What all this boils down to is relevance to Joe again.

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Neil Gow:

Edited Off topic, but still - Incorporating the spirit of all this music is fine. However incorporating the music itself is in my opinion a dead end which could turn everything into Musak. I play traditional Scottish folk music mostly, and in the 19th Century that was heavily influenced by Classical music, rather to its detriment. I don't think I'd be doing it any favours by arranging Fur Elise as a strathspey..

If Joe Soap hears a new piece of 'classical' music relevant to him he'll listen to it. However Joe mostly doesn't hear it. Until very recently the classical music and fine arts worlds had backed themselves into an inaccessible and incestuous back-scratching world of their own making which was irrelevant to 99% of humanity and said nothing to them. Here in UK that appears to be changing, partly due to Classic FM, a music station which has classical charts and plays 'accessible' classical music to quite a large audience. That station must have introduced more people to an interest in classical music in the last ten years than all the classical music snobs in history ever put off it. Note that a radio station did this, not the classical music establishment. With art, there are signs that the 'concept art' movement is wearing very thin and is becoming unconvincing (to those who were ever convinced). What all this boils down to is relevance to Joe again.

Neil

It is not that we are off topic, but that the topic itself misses the whole point of the melting pot culture, of 'racism' in Orchestral jobs etc

Be well

(:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun:

as in "Stop worrying about the outcome of a SINGLE competition that yields a SINGLE winner when you could be going out and helping HUNDREDS of others enjoy the joy of playing the violin", roman.

SHARING your music with others will earn you money. Complaining about race will not!

Gotcha. Thanks

roman

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...