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Upbow staccato in Wieniawski II: Mvt. 1


Stephen  Fine

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Try rhythms- long- short long short for a start and then increase the number of "shorts" per "long." Playing each note twice or three times can be handy because you don't have to change fingers with every staccato. It also helped me to play the notes without the staccato first just to get the left hand right.

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Try this trick. Move the bow up by squeezing it with the right hand. This is a gentle little squeeze between the thumb and the index and ring fingers. What happens is that the squeezing pulse allows you to move the bow in short staccato movements with control.

See if it works for you. The other option would be to go off the string I guess. Post back and let us know how you made out.

good luck,

Don Crandall

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the Up-bow staccato is really not so hard once you've figured out the movements. I find it easier to start about 4 inches from the tip (unless you have a really long passage of staccatos). There are 2 schools of thought on this bowing. 1: tighten up the forearm and wrist 2: loose wrist and loose forearm. I actually use a combination of the 2 and, not to brag, I have a da*n good up-bow staccato. I learned this bowing without a teacher, and the way I do it is unusual because I can do it twice as fast as most people (my teachers, other students, etc...again, I don't mean to brag). Take the motions and just work with them on your own. Good luck.

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This passage is tough even once you've got a decent upbow stacatto (I'm certainly still working on mine...) for the reasons Aman mentioned: a big shift and a string crossing.

If you don't nail the first note of the slur - clearly articulated and centered pitch, then it's all over. Don't tell anyone I told you, but a dirty trick is to slightly rush the shift so you land on the high Bb an instant early. You can then use the extra instant to really set and nail the first note in the slur, the A.

iup, nice articulation and evenness. On this recording, sometimes the articulation is so much that I have trouble hearing the pitch. That could be my crappy speakers, of course!

And before anyone asks, to get to iup's sound clip, click the link and when the new window pops up, remove the "http://" from the address by hand, and it should work. A quirky geocities thing.

Jesse

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quote:

Originally posted by Violinflu:

This passage is tough even once you've got a decent upbow stacatto (I'm certainly still working on mine...) for the reasons Aman mentioned: a big shift and a string crossing.

If you don't nail the first note of the slur - clearly articulated and centered pitch, then it's all over. Don't tell anyone I told you, but a dirty trick is to slightly rush the shift so you land on the high Bb an instant early. You can then use the extra instant to really set and nail the first note in the slur, the A.

iup, nice articulation and evenness. On this recording, sometimes the articulation is so much that I have trouble hearing the pitch. That could be my crappy speakers, of course!

And before anyone asks, to get to iup's sound clip, click the link and when the new window pops up, remove the "http://" from the address by hand, and it should work. A quirky geocities thing.

Jesse

Yes, I didn't have time to make a separate page for sound clips on my webpage, so please remove the http://

About the pitches, that's what happens when I get close to the frog at times. The notes tend to be more click than pitch. Its something I need to work on.

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quote:

Originally posted by stewarts:

iupviolin, could you explain what you meant by loose wrist and loose forearm? How is that even possible?

its hard to explain, but the loose wrist and forearm way means that they are both completely relaxed, and the motion is more of a twitching. Its sort of the opposite of the stiff wrist/forearm which the the impulses are quick moments where the arm relaxes. I'll make a recording of the Wieniawski passage and demonstrate the difference.

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Nice staccato Iupviolin! For some odd reason I find it easier to play staccato hyperfast (using the stiff arm method) than to play with a relaxed arm. I just can't seem to get the impetus and bite (as you have) with a relaxed arm. For this reason I find it difficult to play passages that call for a reasonably fast staccato. Ultimatey I end up tightening the arm and all h*ll breaks loose. Alas I have only one gear (or speed) to my staccato frown.gif

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quote:

Originally posted by Violinflu:

Don't tell anyone I told you, but a dirty trick is to slightly rush the shift so you land on the high Bb an instant early. You can then use the extra instant to really set and nail the first note in the slur, the A.

A very useful trick to know: Ysaye and company would speed up passages for musical effect or so they could hit the next beat cleanly without the rhythm dying (or both). Today, violinists do that the most in the Tchaik Concerto first movement. Think of that passage with the triplets on the E string (orchestra plays a note on the 1st of each set of 16th note triplets), then double stop triplets in the lower register (single notes in Auer's version), then higher triplet string-crossing double stops followed by runs cascading down and back up the fingerboard, then more double stops, more runs, etc., then the octave-jumping trills before the tutti (or coda). Those cascading runs usually end early in performance; sometimes the soloists gets to the nasty double stops early--but holds the note a little longer to keep the beat.

There's also a case for taking a little time on the shift: no singer would sing such a big leap in strict time, and a big jump like that is no ordinary musical/melodic event. If you do decide to take time on the shift, I suggest not overdoing it and making up for the lost time (maybe go to town on the staccato).

-Aman

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quote:

Originally posted by Mu0n:

Thanks for the clip iupviolin.

I'm saving it for when I'll have time to practice this technique.

Now, if someone (or some "ones") would cover every bowing known to man in a pedagogical gallery...

Someone did:

Ivan Galamian: Principles of Violin Playing and Teaching

Available at http://www.sharmusic.com for $30 in paperback.

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quote:

Originally posted by iupviolin:

About the pitches, that's what happens when I get close to the frog at times. The notes tend to be more click than pitch. Its something I need to work on.

You had about 12 notes there, I bet the angle of your bow hair tackling the string was what made the difference there. Given the way you play, you may want to rid of some commitment of your hand in the bow grib while getting close to the frog.

Playing close to the frog doesn't necessarily crash the sound, try the Mendelson concerto in the third movement, some those controled plays are at the frog too.

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quote:

Originally posted by fuchen yang:

You had about 12 notes there, I bet the angle of your bow hair tackling the string was what made the difference there. Given the way you play, you may want to rid of some commitment of your hand in the bow grib while getting close to the frog.

Playing close to the frog doesn't necessarily crash the sound, try the Mendelson concerto in the third movement, some those controled plays are at the frog too.

Thanks for the advise, I'll try it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lymond:

That's a lot of notes on one bow. They're also played very quickly. How do you practice them? I haven't really spent much time on them yet, but I was hoping for some advice before I started cleaning them up.

It's a long passage of upbow spicatto, if you play on string, then try to bring it all way to the tip and let your upper arm open completely, relax your bow hold, starting by using as little bow as possible for the first 16 notes, then you may have more bow when you get to the G string for the notes where you need power on.

Up bow and down bow stocatto can be both played on string and off string, it's a matter of bow control and balance. There are different ways of playing also according to the music, i.e. throwing bow, or controlled stocatto. You really need to relax your hand and don't let your hand committed to one note and dead there.:-)

Good luck

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