Left thumb placement

[tkhng]

I have just watched the lovely DVD on Mutter playing the Beethoven sonatas. She has her left thumb completely under the neck even in the low positions. This has me thinking about the way I hold my violin. Up to the fourth position, I have the thumb sticking a little above the fingerboard. About half of the fatty first segment of the thumb is above the ebony.

I need advice. Do I have to rebuild my hold so that the thumb is completely under the neck or should I go on with my usual hold? I do not have a teacher to consult. Thanks for your help.

tkhng

[iupviolin]

Remember one thing: Mutter is a bad violinist. Don't put your thumb under the neck. Keep it so that just the wee tip sticks out above the fingerboard.

If you play with the thumb under the neck you're tone will suffer because you'll be playing with the very tips of your fingers instead of with the fleshy pads. Your vibrato will sound bad and you'll be more likely to play out of tune in this position. Best of luck with your playing.

[lwl]

Well, I wouldn't call Mutter a *bad* violinist. But otherwise, I more or less agree with iupviolin -- though it does depend on the size of your hands. Mutter's hands are relatively small, I believe, and she probably does that thumb position to facilitate reaching for the notes. (I have my thumb very far under as well, though the tip is still usually marginally above the fingerboard level in the lower positions -- small hands.)

[ysaye]

quote:

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Originally posted by iupviolin:

Remember one thing: Mutter is a bad violinist.

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Why is she bad? Is she bad musically or technically?

[Andrew Victor]

I have observed some other female violinists (and violists) with small hands who play with their left thumbs under the neck - and achieve beautiful tone with a wrist vibrato.

It agrees with my generalizations about playing that if the fingers and bow move on the strings with the proper forces (and their derivatives [math term]) it really doesn't matter how one got them there - provided no physical harm is done to the body in the long or short term. This may be too liberal a way to teach people to play (acording to some) - but I think it sure beats fighting against the way people's bodies function.

Andy

[bleeviola]

Way to go Andrew! You have to work with the body that you are given!

I try to be positive, but it gets ANNOYING when people issue proclamations like "no shoulder rest, left thumb must peek over the fingerboard but not too much, hair must be flat at all times, don't use your left hand to hold up the instrument, etc." when there are artists who clearly violate these edicts for perfectly good reasons.

I'm very tall, with fairly large, broad hands. I break many rules put forth by certain diminutive experts on this list, but I am rather competent because I'm working in harmony with my body and my viola, after much thought, experimentation, and study with good teachers.

[Jason Fruit]

I'll second that. Bravo A.V.!

Jason.

[Taxus]

humm now I am confused

I recently started with a new instructor.

He went out of his way to correct my thumb but he instructed me to place it under the fingerboard in line with the neck. He even went as far as to show me how my thumb will get in the way if left along the fingerbord.

I would normaly start suspecting that maybe he had bad practices. In his case he has a doctorite in musical education from Julieard School of Music. He also has played for quite some time with diffrent orchastra's.

I also know he has been teaching for some time now..

Why would he be showing me this if it is so wrong ????

Tax

[This message has been edited by Taxus (edited 10-18-2001).]

[HuangKaiVun]

Because for certain "diminutive" folks (you talking about ME, bleeviola?) that posture works great.

Try it, abandon it if it doesn't work.

Mutter is NOT a "bad" violinist.

Anybody who can play open strings, let alone have a major solo career, is not a "bad" violinist.

[Taxus]

Mystery solved,

I asked my instructor why.

He told me he want's me to loosen my death grip on the violin neck and he want's my fingers to touch the strings at a diffrent angle. He stated my thumb was too high and he needed to correct it. I wants my thumb on the side but not yet.

Tax

[tkhng]

Thanks for your responses. I am glad I do not have to do any rebuilding of the hold since my initial tries resulted in bad intonation. Habits, violinistic or otherwise, are difficult to change. My fairly long fingers will require me to have more of my thumb above the fingerboard, though the bane of my life is the relatively short little finger which poses problems when I attempt some unreasonable forays into positions the likes of someone like me have no business to venture into. Already I see the problems that lie ahead when the siren that is the violin entices me up the fingerboard, with the lobotomising seduction of the Elkonig...I only have the father's terrors with me...

tkhng