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Beethoven, Mozart, HKV, may be talented but..


andrewuy
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If our Creator comes right to you right now and say, "Mr. ***, you may choose to be in the shoes of any musicians you like, and it will be immediately granted. But remember, it is a package deal, no exchange, no return. And more important, laugh.gif NO REGRETS!"

Who are you going to choose.

Mozart was a prodigy, which from my impression, nobody surpassed. But I definitely would not choose him, because he lead a miserable life, and died a pauper. Neither will I have Beethoven, with his deafness later, and also his frequent abdominal pain from lead poisoning. Neither was his life considered happy. Paganini? With all his sufferings? Maybe no.

Well, you can enumerate more and more of these geniuses with their defects.

What I want to pass across is that we tend to idolize some musicians too much that we just see their feats, but not their defeats. HKV may be very talented, but I am sure he has his heartaches too. Everybody is great in something, but poor in something too. If we understand this, maybe, nobody is going to envy anybody here anymore. And laugh.gif we will all stop the madness, and start treating everybody more gently. You will never like to be Paganini himself if you know each persons'gift comes in a package.

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As a side note, I haven't seen anyone behave in a way envious of another Fingerboard member -- unless we count those who are cheerily jealous of Roman's good fortune to be loaned a top-notch fiddle. smile.gif

I do think that there are folks here who have sounded envious of the success of top-notch present-day virtuosos, but I suspect much of this is fairly abstract, much like the folks who watch television and complain, "Hey, *I* can act better than that bozo!"

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just a note:

mozart did not die a pauper. the common notion that he did die a pauper stems mostly from his buriel in a mass grave, but this was actually a trend at the time. sort of a middle class pride kind of thing. he was actually a collector of billiard tables(and quite a player)toward his later years. he did ask for loans from his friends, but this was more to support a rather lavish lifestyle(if you look at the price of a good pool table, you can imagine just how lavish a lifestyle he was living! smile.gif ) sorry to put in this rather tangental point, but i do think it's somewhat important to note, if not for any reason other than to dispell a common myth.

as for who i would be? well, i hate to be a softie about it, but i think i'd have to pick a somewhat modern violinist, because i'm afraid that i wouldn't be very fond of life before electricity and indoor plumbing! so, if i had to pick one in particular, i'd say hillary hanh(sp?) simply because she seems like such a nice person and she seems rather content with life, and i sure would like to satisfy both of those criterea smile.gif

boy, never thought i'd pick a female! must be too late!

have a good one!

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There may be one or two, but how ever much I might like to be one of the great ones, I wouldn't want to step into his actual shoes. He wouldn't want to step into mine either.

Paganini, I think, no one should envy, but his playing, and a few other aspects-yes, of course! But there is no need to be in the same shoes as another in order to acheive what he acheived, so why look at his shoes? [or his feet]

(not his feats, and not his DEfeats, thank you)!

S.Taylor

[This message has been edited by staylor (edited 04-01-2001).]

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How can we be another person? We can only be who we are.

If I were to ask for something, it would be to muster up, call forth whatever creativity I had. Lifestyles, too many factors affect what happens to us. Personalities, all different. So, the point is, why would anyone want to be someone other than themselves unless they felt terribly inadequate. If that be the case, then work on that rather than wishing you were someone else.

Okay, that being said, and understood, it's fun to imagine what the lives of these great people might have been like (or would it?)

:-)

-J-

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Well, I certainly would love to know what it would have been like to have thought as Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Mozart, and company did for a day or two of high creativity. It would be great to know how the minds of super geniuses feel. That would be quite a wild ride to take at a brainy amusement park.

But, just to keep in the spirit of the thread, if I could change places for a while, without the experience of the tragedies, I would choose Beethoven during part of the period he was composing one of the late quartets. Those quartets for me are part of the apotheosis of what music at its best can be. And to step into Beethoven's mind during the whole of the creative process--from incidental inspirations that led to culmination of notes on score, to see and feel how that process occurred in his great brain...that would be knowledge of the highest.

It's said in the New Testament that when we die, we will know all. And perhaps we'll come to understand the miracle of human creativity.

T.

I guess I'm not in the spirit of the thread upon rereading it. I wouldn't want to change places with Beethoven because the little suffering I've known in my own life has been enough. I cannot imagine suffering as much as he did--his was a great, great spirit: able to bear by far more suffering than I ever could, even though the peak experiences he knew were by far more than I can begin to imagine. Let Beethoven be Beethoven; let Theresa simply stand by the wayside and be amazed that he was.

[This message has been edited by Theresa (edited 04-01-2001).]

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To Andrew: Oh, you've given me a great research project over spring break!! I remember my Bible lessons and sermons in thousands of bits and pieces. I'm definitely not one to remember chapter and verse!!

However, we have spring break coming up. I'm going to Florida and will have some time. I'll bring this thread back up once I find exactly where the "we will know all" part is. And that is a loose paraphrase in my language, but I'll find it.

I think it's probably in Revelations, but, if you're patient, I'll find it. It's one of those bits of information that has stuck with me over the years because I've been so confused by many events--and I've thought, "Oh, well. When I die, this, too, will become clear to my poor confused brain."

Sorry I don't have it now--Brad Stevens, if you're out there, do you know what I'm talking about? It's probably with the verses that tell us about laying our crowns at ****** 's feet and all the things that will happen at the end...???

Best regards,

Theresa

[This message has been edited by Theresa (edited 04-02-2001).]

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Theresa, if you find it, let me know.

What I am trying to pass across is that talented people have their heartaches too, and we must not see only their greatness, and wish ourselves to be like them, more so, to envy them, because each of us have our own gifts, and what you have, he might not have.

[This message has been edited by mark (edited 04-02-2001).]

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Crystal:

Take the things that help you from the board. Give the things that will help others. Ignore the rest.

It has been a pleasure for me to know you through this board and through our email correspondance. I know that you and I will meet someday, just as I met three other people this past weekend.

You are only responsible for what you say. People who write nonsense are responsible for what they say. There is a lot of nonsense here. But there is a lot of value too. I learned that in a big way when I actually met the three women who would be strangers to me forever were it not for the fingerboard.

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In support of Crystal:

Please respond to her on this thread and let all of us know why her post was deleted. Since individual posts can now be deleted without deleting the entire thread, the subsequent posts now make no sense.

It seemed to me that things were improving here. Perhaps that is just a projection of my wish that "we all get along" and that we agree to disagree like adults.

As Cyrstal said, she and HKV were in agreement. There was no argument, and the deletion seems capricious.

Explain please!

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Theresa,

I think Caleb is probably right. I can't think of anything in the Revelation that fits the bill. The phrase in 1 Cor. 13:12 can be translated: "Now I know in part; then I shall know fully..." It is often understood in the context you mention.

Hey, I'll be in Florida for spring break, too!

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I'd be Kreisler, to play and compose and move people the way he did was be great. Of course I'd want to do away with the horrible wife and car crash bits.

On second thought I'll be me. Mine is the best of all possible lifes. ( 10 points if you can figure out who I stole the quote from in a paraphrased form.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cedar:

Mine is the best of all possible lifes. ( 10 points if you can figure out who I stole the quote from in a paraphrased form.

Why, it's Dr. Pangloss from "Candide" by Voltaire, and I claim my 10 points.

And by the way, Mozart was not buried in a "pauper's grave" because he was poor or because there was a fad for unmarked graves. In the year of Mozart's death, everyone was being buried in mass graves outside the city of Vienna because of an outbreak of some disease (forget which), and such burials as Mozart's were mandatory under the law at the time.

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Getting very biblical here!

that's my professional [excuse the pun] expertise., but someone beat me with St. Paul: "Now we see only dimly as as in a glass... then we shall know as fully as we are known...." etc.

Anyway, for me, it's Schubert, inspite of the syphilis and associated ailments leading to his early demise. What a free spirit. Could have had Viennesse society at his feet but never did anything he didn't want to, prefering the coterie of his "Schubertiad" and in the process depriving himself of financial security, but free. That's courage - I don't have the nerve for it.

Omo.

[This message has been edited by Omobono (edited 04-04-2001).]

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quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bailey:

Why, it's Dr. Pangloss from "Candide" by Voltaire, and I claim my 10 points..

Give the man his 10 points and enter him in our drawing for a genuine antique, Italian Stradosomething violin made using the finest German engineering and manufacturing techniques.

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How about the fig tree parable, Matt. 24:33?

Maybe we won't know all, but we'll know when...

quote:

Originally posted by Brad Stevens:

Theresa,

I think Caleb is probably right. I can't think of anything in the Revelation that fits the bill. The phrase in 1 Cor. 13:12 can be translated: "Now I know in part; then I shall know fully..." It is often understood in the context you mention.

Hey, I'll be in Florida for spring break, too!

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