Left hand questions--playing w/o shoulder rest

[Trent_Hill]

I've been experimenting with playing without a shoulder rest, and so far I've found that it frees up my *right* shoulder a great deal. I'm having a hard time, though, developing a left hand position that allows me to support the instrument w/o generating a lot of tension in my right thumb. How do those of you who play w/o the rest deal with supporting the instrument while leaving your fingers free to play? And what about shifting and vibrato?

Many thanks,

Trent

[BJTONG]

Playing without a shoulder rest seems to be very "fashionable" nowadays. I think one would have to use the thumb to support the violin at low position. At higher position the thumb would support the violin naturally because of position of the hand and elbow forming a good support for the violin. The main thing to observe is not to raise the left shoulder and thus tense up the muscle. Otherwise one would expect to get tired very easily.

[scott]

i have spent a few days 'restless' also and i must agree,my tone and bow stroke have improved.certain fingerins seem more problematic than others,but so far shifting semms doable.i m trying to develop vibrato but i can wait.im hoping that over time everything will feel more natural.

today i fitted a small sponge with an elastic band.it really helps to give a bit of support without the iron-maiden,locked up straightjacket feel of my old kun/wolf.im wary of the low tech sponge idea though,i can just imagine the elastic snapping off and hitting someone in the eye.but the sponge couild come in handy if someone spills a coffee...

scott

[D Ellison]

My shoulder doesn't come up; rather, my head goes down. And yes, there are times when my left hand will provide extra support. However, I don't "hold" the instrument with it. I think it boils down to the way each of us is taught. I learned to play without a shoulder rest and have not had any physical problems. Others are not as lucky. At the same time, I suspect that people who use them are not so nearly immune to tension, etc. as they would believe.

D

[D Ellison]

It seems to me that the premise of your question is misplaced. Whether using a shoulder rest or not, you should not support the instrument with your thumb. It needs to be held securely between your chin and collarbone/shoulder. The way I was taught, the thumb doesn't come into it as far as support is concerned. Although I have never used a shoulder rest I have tried several different ones. The experience I had with them tells me that the support you get allows your left hand to be more free. On the other hand, using one sacrifices resonance and instrument position relative to your body (Andy's problem in orchestras while playing on the E at the tip).

It's really a very personal choice. You will hear many who do not use them (and refuse to try them) tel you a shoulder rest is a crutch. However, 200 years ago (or thereabouts), the chin rest was in the same boat. Nowadays, almost no one would ever use a violin without one. Maybe shoulder rests are on the same road.

D

[Stephen]

Without shoulder rest/pad, does your violin stay up and in position without any left hand support at all? To me, the best part about the Kun is that the instrument stays put without requiring the left shoulder to come up & get tense.

Also to any monitoring the board: does doing without the shoulder rest change required vibrato technique? I've noticed that when I try to do without, vibrato ends up making the instrument change position under the bow-- sort of an undulating sensation. (I use a combination of hand/wrist/finger vibrato. Impulse starts in the wrist, but is regulated a bit by the fingers.) This may improve tone, but it seems to be an otherwise undesirable sound effect.

[HuangKaiVun]

I believe that the thumb should play a role in supporting the violin.

One of the reasons the old masters had a more voluminous and projectile tone without forcing is because the thumb provides an upward torque of the violin against the bow.

Modern players who hold the violin by their torsos and not left hands need to provide their upward torque strictly by their erect stiff postures. That leads to stiff whiny tone. The vibrato becomes stiff and whiny as well.

Intonation is actually easier without a rest than with one. That's because the fingers hit the strings at the proper angle and the tone is more solid.

As far as vibrato goes, it is very possible to develop a wondrous vibrato and facility without a shoulder rest. Because playing without a rest allows more left-hand finger contact, one need not shake his wrist off to get a solid vibrato. In fact, it's actually easier for me to maintain the core of the note without a rest than it is with one.

One must do regular scales and etudes. This holds true for the rested as well.

[Trent_Hill]

HKV & DE, thanks for your replies. Let me clarify my question: I have, as far as I can tell, the optimal chinrest on my violin (it's a Flesch): it fills the space b/t my collarbone and chin well and it allows me to comfortably balance the fiddle on my collarbone. And I've been playing scales and studies--a batch of the Sevcik Op. 8 studies, in particular, along with scales and the tried-but-true Kreutzer #2 and #9. My problem: If I play using he most "natural" points-of-contact for my left hand, the tip joint of the thumb and base joint of my index finger, my thumb gets quite tense after about thirty or so minutes of practicing. I suspect I would be better off with different p.o.c., and was interested in knowing how the rest of you "manage" that issue, particularly when you're playing in first position.

Many thanks,

Trent Hill