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Mystery violinist guesses


lwl
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Please use this thread for any discussion of the specific sound clips / violinists / etc. that I've posted in the Identify the Violinists thread.

That way, the original thread won't contain spoilers, for those who want to read it just to get announcements of new sound clips.

I'm personally curious what people's guesses are thus far, what they like and don't like about the playing they've heard, and which of each pair they prefer...

[This message has been edited by lwl (edited 03-04-2001).]

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Lydia- this is fantastic. Nice job on the web interface, you must know your stuff. I couldn't get to all of the 8 clips (e.g., # 1 & 8), but I got some on 33 Kbps).

Now we come up against hard reality.

It's tough. I suspect #4 may be Thibaud. Toscha will probably excel at this.

PS I really like #2. Could even be Oistrakh perhaps, although the vib may be too fast...nah . Now I'm thinking Heifetz, on one of his mellower days.

[This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).]

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This is d***ed hard! OK, so far I've been focusing on Massenet and Faure, and here are my reactions:

1) Incredibly luscious tone and very willful- Elman?

2) Rather nice "modern" (sorry, there's that word) playing, haven't a clue

3) Primitive vibrato and excessive sliding, clearly from the pre- Kreisler / Elman / Heifetz era; Prihoda or Kubelik?

4) Love the deep, viola-like sound; reminds me of Adolph Busch but unfortunately he's not on the list (and Faure surely isn't his repertoire!) I'm stumped but I really want to know who this one is!

Update on #4- based on tone quality and use of slides I'm going to go with Ole Bull here and guess that it's Thibaud.

[This message has been edited by SteveLaBonne (edited 03-05-2001).]

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I'll give it a bit more time before posting answers.

I think it'd be very interesting to know *what* about a particular clip leads you to a given conclusion -- especially Locatelli, who has provided quite a few guesses, some of them lesser-known players.

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Lydia,

Please refrain from posting your answers before most people have had a chance to listen to the clips. (In my case, I can only listen to the clips at home and not at work.) It would be extremely enlightening to see whether the most vociferous fans of XXX (name of one's favorite) can recognize his/her playing. So far, the reasons given for certain guesses are quite educational.

Thanks to you, this is the most fun I've ever had with Maestronet.

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Crushen, I feel your pain.

Here are my Locatelli-influenced guesses (I couldn't come up with better, and they fit from what little I know and what less I remember). I guess I should have noticed the word "spoiler" instead of everyone's guesses!

1. Gitlis or Spivakovsky (from what I've heard of G or what I've read of S)

2. Milstein

3. Ysaye: you can count on him to play Faure, though the sound didn't do for me the way Vieuxtemps Rondino did.

4. Kubelik: oh yeah, maybe you can count on him too...I listened to some K, and the vitality and core to his deep low register struck me.

5. Szigeti: didn't have the Oistrakh sound I was listening for, and S was the best I could come up with based on the vibrato and somewhat on the tone.

6. ?: a safe choice.

7. Stern: from the crunchy attack on some notes (on the Mao to Mozart 20th anniversary video/broadcast, he played Schon Rosmarin fitting my impression), though by that it could be lots of violinists. I support the guess and can't come up with anything better.

8. Shaham?: not enough "Perlman" to be Perlman, i.e. I missed on his tone and especially his scratchy attack, though microphone placement may have betrayed me if my limited experience didn't first.

I prefer 2, 3, 6, and 7.

-Aman

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quote:

Originally posted by lwl:

I'll give it a bit more time before posting answers.

I think it'd be very interesting to know *what* about a particular clip leads you to a given conclusion -- especially Locatelli, who has provided quite a few guesses, some of them lesser-known players.

Ok, Lwl.

Hassid and Neveu`s recordings are special to me. Great choice.( I`m quite sure about them)

Ysaye: I only listened to it a long time ago, but it`s probably him( portamentos, phrasings, etc.).

Stern: it`s probably him, but it made me guess a little more. Perhaps because I don`t listen to him very often. I think he`s not a really sophisticated player, everything sounds simple, a little harsh sometimes.

Milstein: I think he can be difficult to identify "on the radio", really. Almost no portamentos, rubatos, very "clean" sound. I was in doubt, but saw his name on the list, and realized it could only be him.

The #5 really sounds like Perlman, but I can`t be sure. Whoever he(she) is, it`s an excellent recording.

#4 and #7 made me curious.

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OK, fools rush in where angels fear to tread- on to Liebesleid!

8) Buttery, somewhat unvaried tone, (too?) careful, restrained and tasteful use of expressive slides: I'll wager this is a fine contemporary Galamian / Delay product. I'll go with Shaham.

7) A real puzzle. I strongly disagree with another guesser that the bowing is like Kreisler's- Kreisler would never put those clipped staccatos in the theme, eg. notes 7 & 8. The general air of relaxation, and the comfortable and idiomatic use of slides, suggest someone born in the early part of the 20th century, but that's as far as I can get. Certainly captures the spirit of the piece better than #8.

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Couple more comments, since I'm snowed in today and have nothing better to do wink.gif :

1. I am quite sure now that #5 is Oistrakh. So sure that I went and found a clip of the Gluck at http://www.oistrakh.com/gluck.ram. This certainly sounds to me like the same recording as Lydia's clip #5. I can almost always recognize Oistrakh by his vibrato, which is not only slow (though moreso in his late recordings than in this one) but also noticeably uneven in speed. This trait used to grate on my ears but it is beginning to appeal to me- it's part of what makes his playing seem especially "human". (Also, I can think of few other violinists who would take such a slow tempo in this piece!)

2. I am equally sure that #6 is _not_ Neveu, as I am very familiar with her reaording of the Gluck (as beautiful as clip #6 is, Neveu's is even more moving- her intensity is almost unbearable.) Kreisler is probably not a good guess either- I really can't place #6.

3. I agree 100% with Lydia about the difficulty, and often pointlessness, of recognizing "schools". (Do Neveu, Szerying and Haendel, all Flesch products , really sound all that similar?) Regardless of background, any violinist of real stature is first and foremost an individual. Furthermore, the quirks that allow relatively easy recognition of certain violinists are not always and necessarily positive traits from a musical point of view- one should not glorify instant recognizability as the be-all and end-all of violin playing. However, I do agree that today, recording- and competition-induced homogenization have gone too far.

Arrgh, the Oistrakh link above doesn't seem to work. Try navigating to the Gluck selection from http://www.oistrakh.com/liste_extraits_sonores.html instead.

[This message has been edited by SteveLaBonne (edited 03-06-2001).]

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I went to Amazon to hear some Hassid and maybe Neveu for the first time. I happened upon a sample of Hassid's Massenet and Neveu's Gluck, and I'll say #1 is Hassid (his phrasing and rhythm) and #6 is Neveu (tone, maybe vibrato).

Before this, I'd never heard the Gluck before. Thanks, lwl.

-Aman

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vieuxtemps, Galamian may have learned from Mostras - but it doesn't show in his students or methodology.

I tried to open the link to lwl's post, and for some reason the server wouldn't respond.

I will try again later.

Even if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter because I do - and fail - this test EVERY DAY when I flip on the radio!

[This message has been edited by HuangKaiVun (edited 03-07-2001).]

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Huang, you said before, that you can hear the Auer influence, you also said you can tell if the a violinist has studied Kreutzer, and last but not least, you said that you can identify Heifetz by hearing three notes.

Can you tell us,

1. who among these violinist has Auer influence and how you recognize it?

2. Who studied (or did not study) Kreutzer?

3. And, is Heifetz one of them? which one?

That would help us all learn a little more.

enjoy -sm

quote:

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun:

Even if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter because I do - and fail - this test EVERY DAY when I flip on the radio!

[This message has been edited by HuangKaiVun (edited 03-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sm (edited 03-08-2001).]

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