lwl Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 Please use this thread for any discussion of the specific sound clips / violinists / etc. that I've posted in the Identify the Violinists thread. That way, the original thread won't contain spoilers, for those who want to read it just to get announcements of new sound clips. I'm personally curious what people's guesses are thus far, what they like and don't like about the playing they've heard, and which of each pair they prefer... [This message has been edited by lwl (edited 03-04-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole Bull Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 Lydia- this is fantastic. Nice job on the web interface, you must know your stuff. I couldn't get to all of the 8 clips (e.g., # 1 & 8), but I got some on 33 Kbps). Now we come up against hard reality. It's tough. I suspect #4 may be Thibaud. Toscha will probably excel at this. PS I really like #2. Could even be Oistrakh perhaps, although the vib may be too fast...nah . Now I'm thinking Heifetz, on one of his mellower days. [This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).] [This message has been edited by Ole Bull (edited 03-04-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushen Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 man its hard...heh all the links worked for me, i have no clue there are too many possiblities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb Posted March 4, 2001 Report Share Posted March 4, 2001 are you interested in uneducated opinions, like 'i like #X just because', or only 'i think #X is maestro so-n-so because he's the only one whose vibrato makes my cat howl.'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paganini72 Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 I guess #8 Liebesleid is Isaac Stern #7 is very similar to Kreisler 's bowing style but I think it's not Kreisler himself since the arragement is quite modern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLaBonne Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 This is d***ed hard! OK, so far I've been focusing on Massenet and Faure, and here are my reactions: 1) Incredibly luscious tone and very willful- Elman? 2) Rather nice "modern" (sorry, there's that word) playing, haven't a clue 3) Primitive vibrato and excessive sliding, clearly from the pre- Kreisler / Elman / Heifetz era; Prihoda or Kubelik? 4) Love the deep, viola-like sound; reminds me of Adolph Busch but unfortunately he's not on the list (and Faure surely isn't his repertoire!) I'm stumped but I really want to know who this one is! Update on #4- based on tone quality and use of slides I'm going to go with Ole Bull here and guess that it's Thibaud. [This message has been edited by SteveLaBonne (edited 03-05-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLaBonne Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Wild-*** Gluck guesses: 5) Oistrakh? sounds like his (slowish and wideish) vibrato and bowing somehow 6) Kreisler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarts Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 My wild guess for #1 is also Elman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locatelli Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Let me try... #1:Hassid #2:Milstein #3:Ysaye #4 I`m not sure) #5 Sounds like Perlman) #6:Neveu #7 I`m not sure) #8:Stern Is that right? (But let me add that I liked the recordings a lot, no matter if I can identify them or not...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatus Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 I think I recognize a couple of them, but I am too afraid to post it here. I will wait for you to post the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwl Posted March 5, 2001 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 I'll give it a bit more time before posting answers. I think it'd be very interesting to know *what* about a particular clip leads you to a given conclusion -- especially Locatelli, who has provided quite a few guesses, some of them lesser-known players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vobsession Posted March 5, 2001 Report Share Posted March 5, 2001 Lydia, Please refrain from posting your answers before most people have had a chance to listen to the clips. (In my case, I can only listen to the clips at home and not at work.) It would be extremely enlightening to see whether the most vociferous fans of XXX (name of one's favorite) can recognize his/her playing. So far, the reasons given for certain guesses are quite educational. Thanks to you, this is the most fun I've ever had with Maestronet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vieuxtemps Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Crushen, I feel your pain. Here are my Locatelli-influenced guesses (I couldn't come up with better, and they fit from what little I know and what less I remember). I guess I should have noticed the word "spoiler" instead of everyone's guesses! 1. Gitlis or Spivakovsky (from what I've heard of G or what I've read of S) 2. Milstein 3. Ysaye: you can count on him to play Faure, though the sound didn't do for me the way Vieuxtemps Rondino did. 4. Kubelik: oh yeah, maybe you can count on him too...I listened to some K, and the vitality and core to his deep low register struck me. 5. Szigeti: didn't have the Oistrakh sound I was listening for, and S was the best I could come up with based on the vibrato and somewhat on the tone. 6. ?: a safe choice. 7. Stern: from the crunchy attack on some notes (on the Mao to Mozart 20th anniversary video/broadcast, he played Schon Rosmarin fitting my impression), though by that it could be lots of violinists. I support the guess and can't come up with anything better. 8. Shaham?: not enough "Perlman" to be Perlman, i.e. I missed on his tone and especially his scratchy attack, though microphone placement may have betrayed me if my limited experience didn't first. I prefer 2, 3, 6, and 7. -Aman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locatelli Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 quote: Originally posted by lwl: I'll give it a bit more time before posting answers. I think it'd be very interesting to know *what* about a particular clip leads you to a given conclusion -- especially Locatelli, who has provided quite a few guesses, some of them lesser-known players. Ok, Lwl. Hassid and Neveu`s recordings are special to me. Great choice.( I`m quite sure about them) Ysaye: I only listened to it a long time ago, but it`s probably him( portamentos, phrasings, etc.). Stern: it`s probably him, but it made me guess a little more. Perhaps because I don`t listen to him very often. I think he`s not a really sophisticated player, everything sounds simple, a little harsh sometimes. Milstein: I think he can be difficult to identify "on the radio", really. Almost no portamentos, rubatos, very "clean" sound. I was in doubt, but saw his name on the list, and realized it could only be him. The #5 really sounds like Perlman, but I can`t be sure. Whoever he(she) is, it`s an excellent recording. #4 and #7 made me curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLaBonne Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 OK, fools rush in where angels fear to tread- on to Liebesleid! 8) Buttery, somewhat unvaried tone, (too?) careful, restrained and tasteful use of expressive slides: I'll wager this is a fine contemporary Galamian / Delay product. I'll go with Shaham. 7) A real puzzle. I strongly disagree with another guesser that the bowing is like Kreisler's- Kreisler would never put those clipped staccatos in the theme, eg. notes 7 & 8. The general air of relaxation, and the comfortable and idiomatic use of slides, suggest someone born in the early part of the 20th century, but that's as far as I can get. Certainly captures the spirit of the piece better than #8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLaBonne Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 Couple more comments, since I'm snowed in today and have nothing better to do : 1. I am quite sure now that #5 is Oistrakh. So sure that I went and found a clip of the Gluck at http://www.oistrakh.com/gluck.ram. This certainly sounds to me like the same recording as Lydia's clip #5. I can almost always recognize Oistrakh by his vibrato, which is not only slow (though moreso in his late recordings than in this one) but also noticeably uneven in speed. This trait used to grate on my ears but it is beginning to appeal to me- it's part of what makes his playing seem especially "human". (Also, I can think of few other violinists who would take such a slow tempo in this piece!) 2. I am equally sure that #6 is _not_ Neveu, as I am very familiar with her reaording of the Gluck (as beautiful as clip #6 is, Neveu's is even more moving- her intensity is almost unbearable.) Kreisler is probably not a good guess either- I really can't place #6. 3. I agree 100% with Lydia about the difficulty, and often pointlessness, of recognizing "schools". (Do Neveu, Szerying and Haendel, all Flesch products , really sound all that similar?) Regardless of background, any violinist of real stature is first and foremost an individual. Furthermore, the quirks that allow relatively easy recognition of certain violinists are not always and necessarily positive traits from a musical point of view- one should not glorify instant recognizability as the be-all and end-all of violin playing. However, I do agree that today, recording- and competition-induced homogenization have gone too far. Arrgh, the Oistrakh link above doesn't seem to work. Try navigating to the Gluck selection from http://www.oistrakh.com/liste_extraits_sonores.html instead. [This message has been edited by SteveLaBonne (edited 03-06-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarts Posted March 6, 2001 Report Share Posted March 6, 2001 #1 is not Gitlis, as I have heard his Meditation before. Hassid is not impossible, but I remember him being much more idiosyncratic in phrasing when I heard his only recording playing the piece on radio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lwl Posted March 7, 2001 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 I'm waiting to hear which of these folks HKV hears as being Auer students / descendents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vieuxtemps Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 Auer->Mostras->Galamian->DeLay (a handful of lessons, plus sharing of thoughts). No one is safe! If you think that's far-reaching, wait till you hear how many violinists came from Pugnani's line! -Aman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vieuxtemps Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 I went to Amazon to hear some Hassid and maybe Neveu for the first time. I happened upon a sample of Hassid's Massenet and Neveu's Gluck, and I'll say #1 is Hassid (his phrasing and rhythm) and #6 is Neveu (tone, maybe vibrato). Before this, I'd never heard the Gluck before. Thanks, lwl. -Aman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuangKaiVun Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 vieuxtemps, Galamian may have learned from Mostras - but it doesn't show in his students or methodology. I tried to open the link to lwl's post, and for some reason the server wouldn't respond. I will try again later. Even if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter because I do - and fail - this test EVERY DAY when I flip on the radio! [This message has been edited by HuangKaiVun (edited 03-07-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyann Posted March 7, 2001 Report Share Posted March 7, 2001 11 is Sarah Chang To me her left hand pizzicato is recognizable. I think Bazzini has left hand pizzicato if I am not mistaken. [This message has been edited by rainyann (edited 03-07-2001).] [This message has been edited by rainyann (edited 03-07-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarts Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 11 is Sarah Chang, 12 is Heifetz, I think. I know the first one from owning the recording, and guess the second one from the short spiccato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ole Bull Posted March 8, 2001 Report Share Posted March 8, 2001 #9 is sensational, although not your "correct" Mozart style. I think it's Kreisler based on the sound. That Gluck Melody never grabbed me. I don't think #5 is Oistrakh, but it's hard to tell with that piece. I'd know him in anything romantic (I think!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm Posted March 9, 2001 Report Share Posted March 9, 2001 Huang, you said before, that you can hear the Auer influence, you also said you can tell if the a violinist has studied Kreutzer, and last but not least, you said that you can identify Heifetz by hearing three notes. Can you tell us, 1. who among these violinist has Auer influence and how you recognize it? 2. Who studied (or did not study) Kreutzer? 3. And, is Heifetz one of them? which one? That would help us all learn a little more. enjoy -sm quote: Originally posted by HuangKaiVun: Even if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter because I do - and fail - this test EVERY DAY when I flip on the radio! [This message has been edited by HuangKaiVun (edited 03-07-2001).] [This message has been edited by sm (edited 03-08-2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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