Scratching new rosin? ummmm.......?

[paganiniboy]

Ive always had this bother me. Is it "better" to scratch the rosin with a quarter when its new? OR is that just a myth that doesn't do anything. Ive never done it before, and of all the rosins Ive owned (about 5) they don't need that. Although, my ex-teacher said once that it makes the rosin better and the bow will sound better along the violin. WHAT?!

[Stephen Fine]

It's not "better," but it makes the application of rosin easier (powder is easier to put on the bow than solid). Obviously, powder will be created by rubbing the hair across the rosin whether or not you scratch it, but it'll save you a little bit of "breaking in" time. Hope this answers your question.

[Greta Schmidt]

Now this is interesting!

When I first started playing, I was told to scratch the surface of the rosin and run the bow over the powder. I've done this for four months now, somewhat baffled by the inconsistant application, but thinking this was the only way. (I also don't like the way the rosin crumbles and seems drier each time).

Recently, I met with a (potential) teacher who had some Coda bows I wanted to try. He was using the Hill rosin (which prompted an earlier post concerning the light or dark kinds of rosins), but I noticed his rosin cake had two crisscrossed grooves and no crumbling stuff. I was so busy pummeling the man with other questions that I didn't ask about this.

I have new Hill rosin on order, so I'm anxious to try the non-scratching method. But a probably stupid/obvious question: do I just run the bow across the rosin cake to coat the hair? is there a way to get it "started" without scratching up the surface? Lymond, how long does it take to break it in?

Thanks!

- Greta

[Bill Eggleston]

I've had good luck using Hill dark rosin just as it comes with no scratching or break-in

[CML101]

I tend to scratch up my rosin for the first application, just to kind of get through the initial coating. I have found that this elimates frustrating work using your bow to do this. It just takes the first time, so you definately don't need to do it each time you re-rosin.

Christy

[staylor]

I'd prefer a dime, or a one-cent. I know the Canadian quarters might be a little finer than anything American, but It's still better. Best would be to scratch it with a fine sharp curved knife. (very finely)

I do it all with the bow. It take between 5-20 good aplications to make a groove all across, just hold it in place carefully, atleast the bow hair shouldn't take a good rosining from your hand, if it slips.

But the quarter idea really sounds (groovy) ingenious and rescourceful. Nothing better than the good old quarter!!!

Staylor

[paganiniboy]

quote:

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Originally posted by staylor:

I'd prefer a dime, or a one-cent. I know the Canadian quarters might be a little finer than anything American, but It's still better. Staylor

---

MAy I ask where you are from in Canada? I moved to Ca. from Texas in November. Im in Mississauga right now. get back to me when ya can! take care

Now about all that rosin sttuuuuufff, thanks for your help!!!! That "x" in the rosin thing interested me very much too! But still, I think id rather just take up an extra 2 minutes "breaking-in" new rosin. Besides, it looks so much better, PLUS, when you scratch it repetadly, you waste half of the rosin in the air! Oh well, thanks again!

[Stephen Fine]

If you apply rosin every time you play, the grooves will begin forming immediately. However, my experience is that while grooves look cool, they're aren't the best for using rosin most cost effectively. Normally you can get only two grooves (an X) in a piece of rosin before you have to get rid of it. If you turn the rosin while applying to the bow, you'll be able to keep the rosin for much longer. If you do want to make the grooves though, just make sure you rub the rosin the same way every time you apply it. Good luck! Adieu!

[Ludwig]

I just use a little sandpaper on a new cake of rosin to break the surface a little.

[Andrew Victor]

Ive never scratched rosin to get it started applying to a bow --and powdered rosin can over-power very quickly leading to rosin all over the instrument and rosin buidup on the strings--which leads to poor scratch tone. Scrateching the rosin cake should be reserved for those times when you must rosin a just-rehaired bow for the first time, and it is difficult to get the rosin "to take."

In my youth I created a few top-cross rosin cakes (after graduating from the rectangular, cork-sided rectangular cakes - that keeps the bow from running off the cake onto your fingers - as does the groove in a round cake) until I realized that I could get 3 to 4 times more rosin out of each cake by either rotating it between or during rosinings.

No matter how you do it, you will be lucky (unless it is very soft rosin) to get more than 1/2-way through the cake before cracking or stress from use or even dropping causes it to disintegrate.

Rosin is cheap enough to toss it away, but it can be melted and recast into new rounds or rectangular containers - and will work about as well the second time around.

Andy

[This message has been edited by Andrew Victor (edited 09-25-2000).]

[Greta Schmidt]

The "X" shape does seem like an inefficient use of the cake, now that some of you mention it. Also, making sure you have the bow exactly in the groove so it doesn't snag. I was just very happy with the coating of rosin being so much less crumbly and crunchy.

greta

[staylor]

quote:

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Originally posted by paganiniboy:

MAy I ask where you are from in Canada? I moved to Ca. from Texas in November. Im in Mississauga right now. get back to me when ya can! take care

---

If you mean via e-mail, (and just in case anyone may have e-mailed me during the past 2 weeks, be it known-) I expect to be up till about 2 more weeks without my own computer and e-mail. (Then I will catch up, and answer everything. I'm saying this -just in case- anyone did e-mail me [and anyone can]. Not to be offended).

I now live in Israel, and I come from London, England. It's only that I've recently been on a few visits to the USA and 3 times in Canada. Each time it was in Montreal [so far].

Re. criss cross grooves, I think it is as economical as anything since after half way, you can also wear down the 4 corners from the inside, by holding the rosin sideways and pressing down with the bow on the sides of the grooves. It's also quite secure from slipping much.

Best regards,

S.Taylor

[Suite Jane]

Hmmm,...I don't know about scratching rosin, but that teacher with the two crossed grooves in his cake of rosin interested me. I was told to make sure to rub the bow in a different direction across the rosin each time I applied it to avoid making grooves. Supposedly running a bow through a groove in a cake of rosin will result in uneven application of the rosin on the hair. Anybody else ever been told this?

SJ

[ifhwoef]

PLEASE READ

You never have to scratch the rosin! You can keep the smooth, nice surface on the rosin. Just get a cloth and scrub the new rosin with a cloth dampened with alcohol (hand sanitizer consists of alcohol). The reason you cant start rosining your bow with a brand new rosin is because there is a protective coat. The alcohol removes that coat. But before use, make sure to wipe away all of the alcohol.

Edited March 11, 2017 by ifhwoef
said "rosin" too many times

[Rue]

This is another 17 year old thread.

However...since it's been resurrected... the best way I have found to start a new rosin is to sand off the glossy surface...then you are good to go!

I rotate too...to avoid creating grooves...

[Jeff Jetson]

Hey this is an old thread so I gotta chime in.  I have a huge number of different brands of rosin and have never had to scratch or sand the surface to get it to adhere to the bow. My cakes always stay flat and not grooved or uneven like some others I have seen. I use lots of rosin and my cakes never seem to wear down. Maybe  tire manufacturers could experiment with adding rosin to their rubber formula for longer lasting tires.

[Rue]

Ditto that suggestion! 

[vathek]

I scratch it with new bow hair, but would never use a quarter.

[FidPup]

I use rosin in a round, flat cake (Pirastro Oliv), and always rotate the cake to keep the surface flat.

I usually replace my rosin cake after 2-3 years, as a precaution or hedge against possible aging/drying of the rosin (LOTS of threads about that out there!), since I have never come close to using up a cake after three years.

Anyway, I have found a way to "start" a shiny new rosin cake that usually works even with a newly-rehaired bow:

I hold the cake close to my open mouth and breathe on the shiny surface like I am trying to fog a mirror (Haaaa...). I breathe on it a few times, and then immediately rub it with the bow while it's still "foggy". It sometimes takes a few breathe-breathe-breathe-apply cycles, but it somehow creates enough "traction" for the hair to break the glaze.

I have successfully started rosin in the past by scratching the surface (although I have always been leery of using sandpaper - I don't want any possible displaced grit in my rosin or on the hair scratching my strings!) The breath-fogging method works well with the rosins I've tried it on, and it's kind of an elegant solution, if you think about it!

 

[Rue]

36 minutes ago, FidPup said:

...I have always been leery of using sandpaper - I don't want any possible displaced grit in my rosin or on the hair scratching my strings!) ...

 

I wasn't using a belt-sander.  No displaced grit.

[Will L]

The old "criss-cross" came from players who didn't bother to try to take the cake down in an even way across the entire surface.  I don't think it was anything clever or thought out; once the first groove got too deep and narrow—and seemed to not be covering all the hair evenly—then the player made a quarter turn and started again.

I never heard that there is a protective coating on rosin, but I suppose one can't be too careful.

If I had a bow with no rosin on it and a new cake of rosin I would scratch the surface to get things started.  If a bow already has some rosin it will get a new cake started more easily.

Re-hairers usually have a box of pre-powdered rosin to start off new hair.  That rosin usually comes from old cakes of all sorts of brands.  I've even taken a brand new cake of expensive rosin, just to crow that nothing is too good for my customers.  

[franciscus]

2 hours ago, Will L said:

Re-hairers usually have a box of pre-powdered rosin to start off new hair.  That rosin usually comes from old cakes of all sorts of brands.

It depends on re-hairer. For the priming, I've never used the pre-powdered rosin, but the powder obtained by sanding the fresh cake using the Norton 3x 220 grit sandpaper. For the application, I use the piece of smooth leather.

[DR. S]

Been playing for over 50 years.

I have never scratched my Rosin, nor have I had any problem with a 'coating' on a new cake of rosin.

I have never replaced a rosin due to aging.  In fact, up to about 15 years ago I had only gone through about 3 cakes of rosin - good ol' cheap Hidersine - and only replaced a cake because they got broken. 

I use very little rosin, even when I played many hours each day, every day, I only rosined every few days, unless my bow hair was getting old - though I tend to need rehairs due to loss of hair/breakage rather than wearing it out - I'm a pretty aggressive player. 

I wear my cakes down evenly, constantly rotating the cake so my hair will always lie flat on the cake and get and even coat. 

After I rosin my bow, I always run it over a rag first to get the excess off.

Starting about 15 years ago, I decided, just for kicks, to try some other brands (found some I didn't like - Dominant - waxy - but nothing that made me sound like Zucherman either.) Most did what they are supposed to do quite well.  

I now keep three active cakes of Rosin, one in each case (a violin, viola, and violin/viola)   Hidersine, Salchow, and another brand I can't recall at this time.  No preference for one over the other even with regards to violin or viola.

[Jeff Jetson]

I think Salchow is great rosin but seldom mentioned . 

[DR. S]

I was familiar with the Salchow name from my time in New York - he did some work on my bows.  I tried some of his bows but nothing struck me as special about them - at least not for me - but he had a good reputation.    There is bow maker here in Texas, Mike Sheriff, who now has his own rosin formulation he sells, supposedly he spent many years refining his recipe.   I've tried it (a friend has a cake), seems fine, but again, nothing that made me say 'wow', and it is somewhat expensive.