StCr Posted July 8 Report Posted July 8 Hallo everyone! Has anyone ever seen somthing like this violin? Can it be attributet to a certain time and place (maybe school)? The scroll doensn't belong to the corpus. Inside is a false Amati- label. Arching is typically very high. With photos I do my best. Best wishes, Steve.
Blank face Posted July 8 Report Posted July 8 These photos are completely useless to tell anything in particular, except that it looks stripped and damaged. Please read the thread about photography for ID purpose.
StCr Posted July 9 Author Report Posted July 9 Dear Blank face! Are these Pictures more useful? Best regards
Blank face Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 7 minutes ago, StCr said: Dear Blank face! Are these Pictures more useful? Best regards Yes, much better, though they could be better in focus and less exposured. At first sight it looks like something from Mittenwald 1800 or a bit earlier, though it's odd that the purfling at the f hole close up looks different from the other photos with the thin white middle stripe (what's more a Markneukirchen feature). How is it in reality? Sadly it has lost the biggest part of the original varnish and a double soundpost crack in the bottom.
StCr Posted July 9 Author Report Posted July 9 Dear Blank face! As far as I know, it is about 1790, that would fits. Thank you very much! Steve.
StCr Posted July 12 Author Report Posted July 12 I have again a look at it, and there is no white middle- stripe for sure.
StCr Posted July 12 Author Report Posted July 12 I came across this violin during my research. It is much older, but I think it is similar in style, and the dimensions are comparable, too. But I am not an expert. https://www.geigenbau-schuetz.at/portfolio/violine-johann-georg-thir-wien-1757/
StCr Posted July 12 Author Report Posted July 12 Dimensions from my violin are: Body 35,8 cm., Top Bout 16,0 cm., Lower Bout 19,7 cm.
palousian Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 18 minutes ago, StCr said: I have again a look at it, and there is no white middle- stripe for sure. There is indeed a "white stripe" in the middle of the purfling--I mean, it's not "white" exactly, but "light-colored wood" anyway. I think that whoever put this back together after its adventure had trouble getting the purfling back in the slot in the table, so we see it in better shape on the back, where it looks more like Mittenwald-style. I think it may be the same purfling on the front, but was broken up and the luthier filled the gaps with black stuff, making it appear as if the black parts were wider and the center "white" stripe were thinner-- that is, Markneuklirchen-style. Or they replaced the purfling with something more Markneukirchen-esque.
StCr Posted July 12 Author Report Posted July 12 Dear Palousian! Very interesting! Thanx for telling your assessment!
Brad Dorsey Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 If there weren’t so many of those dots, my guess would be that they are filled holes that were drilled along the cracks to allow wires or strings to pass through to clamp reinforcement cleats along the cracks. But normally, that many cleats would not be used on cracks so short. The test of this theory is to look inside to see if there is a cleat corresponding to each dot. If this doesn’t explain the dots, I have no idea why they are there. If there is a patch there, it is possible that the cleats — if they were there — were removed when the patch was installed.
GeorgeH Posted July 12 Report Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Brad Dorsey said: If there weren’t so many of those dots, my guess would be that they are filled holes that were drilled along the cracks to allow wires or strings to pass through to clamp reinforcement cleats along the cracks. But normally, that many cleats would not be used on cracks so short. The test of this theory is to look inside to see if there is a cleat corresponding to each dot. If this doesn’t explain the dots, I have no idea why they are there. If there is a patch there, it is possible that the cleats — if they were there — were removed when the patch was installed. Most luthiers try to hide repairs. This is the opposite.
StCr Posted July 13 Author Report Posted July 13 Dear Mr. Dorsey, Dear George! What a pity! What do you both think about age?
Brad Dorsey Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 1 hour ago, GeorgeH said: Most luthiers try to hide repairs... That's why most luthiers don't drill holes in instruments to install cleats -- at least not very often. I have done this twice: once on a mandolin about 45 years ago, before I knew what I was doing, and once in 2017 to do a quick and dirty repair on a cheap cello, as I showed here: Need Help with Cello Butchery - The Pegbox - Maestronet Forums
Brad Dorsey Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 35 minutes ago, StCr said: ...What do you...think about age? I am not going to comment on the age, because there are other people here who are much more knowledgeable about this than I am. Have you looked inside to see if there are multiple cleats on the back cracks?
Dorisch Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 I used to know a violin maker in Bielefeld (Germany) who generally installed cleats like that and it looked exactly as in the picture when she did so. I wouldn’t even be surprised if she did this particular repair. The spacing is very typical for her work. She was one of the very first female master luthiers in Germany with a few of her own ideas.
GeorgeH Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 12 hours ago, StCr said: What do you both think about age? I can’t tell how old it is. I’d recommend a getting a dendro analysis for a potentially more valuable violin if you thought it was very old. But for this violin in this condition, it probably isn’t worth it.
StCr Posted July 13 Author Report Posted July 13 Thank you all for your comments. It is possible to retouch this cracks with the dots on bottom?
GeorgeH Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 13 minutes ago, StCr said: It is possible to retouch this cracks with the dots on bottom? If they are holes drilled in the back, there isn’t much you can do to make them and the crack disappear. Given the condition it is in, the violin is really just a player’s instrument without much market value. If the repair is holding, then there is not much point in spending money for a cosmetic repair. Plus, the back also has an unattractive “brick” repair at the bottom block and maybe a broken button repair as well. What does the repair look like on the inside?
jacobsaunders Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 I think one may say with confidence that it was an Austrian violin from the late 18th which originally had a dark varnish. It is so mangled that is no longer a viable project
Blank face Posted July 13 Report Posted July 13 54 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said: I think one may say with confidence that it was an Austrian violin from the late 18th which originally had a dark varnish. It is so mangled that is no longer a viable project Agree with all points. BTW I have a violin showing similar rows of holes at the repair zones, but not exactly on the cracks. I assumed that they were meant to insert either threats or small plugs to "sew" the cracks together, as I've heard about such methods before. And it's not completely excluded that it was once in Bielefeld, considering the person I've once got it from.
StCr Posted July 14 Author Report Posted July 14 On 7/13/2026 at 7:53 AM, Dorisch said: I used to know a violin maker in Bielefeld (Germany) who generally installed cleats like that and it looked exactly as in the picture when she did so. I wouldn’t even be surprised if she did this particular repair. The spacing is very typical for her work. She was one of the very first female master luthiers in Germany with a few of her own ideas. I have asked the one, who sold the violin to me, and he said, this must happen before 1989. Could that fit?
Dorisch Posted July 14 Report Posted July 14 59 minutes ago, StCr said: I have asked the one, who sold the violin to me, and he said, this must happen before 1989. Could that fit? The timeline would fit, but that of course doesn’t mean more than it not being impossible. Unfortunately she is not alive anymore to ask her. Her name was Sigler, but I forgot her first name.
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