Feedback on violin labeled da Salo

[lifestyle_nyc]

Hello.

I am currently in the market for my forever violin and I recently tried this violin which I really liked the sound of. The shop says it's an early 18th century copy of a Gaspar da Salo (labeled as such) with Maggini style double purfling on the front and places its origins in Southern Germany or Austria. It's priced at the upper end of my budget. If anybody could provide more insight into this instrument, it would be much appreciated. The pictures are taken from the shop's website which are available publicly. Thank you in advance.

[deans]

Its cool and looks of high quality. I might question the early 18th century part, maybe they mean early 1800s, but I could be wrong.

[GeorgeH]

What is the LOB?

[Conor Russell]

Unusual,  I think,  to see double purfling in the top, and single in the back.

[Blank face]

It might be from Mittenwald or Austria, maybe even 18th century, but most likely with a later replacement belly. Though there were some earlier double purfled instruments, but always with both plates done that way, copying Da Salo or Maggini started not earlier than in the 19th century, when these makers were revived by French makers like Vuillaume.

[Jacobus Drainer]

Pretty.  The top view shows an interesting center line?  I'll let the pros comment

[deans]

Top could definitely be later. But the back still has an outline that suggests that it was meant to be Brescian-like.

[David Burgess]

11 hours ago, lifestyle_nyc said:

It's priced at the upper end of my budget.

What is the price? I don't think anyone can comment on the bang-for-the-buck without knowing that.

[Blank face]

40 minutes ago, deans said:

But the back still has an outline that suggests that it was meant to be Brescian-like.

Please define „Brescian-alike“ outline.

[deans]

8 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Please define „Brescian-alike“ outline.

I can't. Its just a "look". That undefined style that 19th century makers have used to try to suggest that period of making. It doesnt look like a random M-wald violin that someone slapped on a double purfling top, at least to my eye.

[Blank face]

I would prefer to know about more defined features, f.e.if the linings are inserted into asymmetrical corner blocks and if the lower rib is one piece, possibly with a notch.

[deans]

46 minutes ago, Blank face said:

I would prefer to know about more defined features, f.e.if the linings are inserted into asymmetrical corner blocks and if the lower iib is one piece, possibly with a notch.

I'll bet it does. At least the corne block part.

[HoGo]

2 hours ago, Jacobus Drainer said:

Pretty.  The top view shows an interesting center line?  I'll let the pros comment

It's a one piece top.

$18k here: https://www.vermontviolins.com/store-instruments/copy-of-gaspar-da-salo-brescia-violin

[Foldejal]

I'm little bit surprised by the price, for that money I can buy new violin from reputable master luthier here where I live. Is 18000usd violin really for conservatory student on a budget in USA?

[lifestyle_nyc]

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

What is the price? I don't think anyone can comment on the bang-for-the-buck without knowing that.

I was quoted 15K USD for it which is the upper end of my budget.

[lifestyle_nyc]

2 hours ago, deans said:

Top could definitely be later. But the back still has an outline that suggests that it was meant to be Brescian-like.

I was thinking the same. I had never seen a violin which had double purfling on one side but not the other. Perhaps it is a composite instrument?

[Wood Butcher]

22 minutes ago, Foldejal said:

I'm little bit surprised by the price, for that money I can buy new violin from reputable master luthier here where I live. Is 18000usd violin really for conservatory student on a budget in USA?

It's easy to criticize someone else's pricing.

I'm sure you can buy a large house in the countryside for less than a similar sized one in a city, or buy a sports car for the same price as a pickup truck, but so what.

So let's not pretend that you don't know antique instruments carry a premium.

[Violadamore]

9 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

..................antique instruments carry a premium.

Ooooooooooooooo.....I like that.  Mind if I quote you while haggling with buyers?  

[Foldejal]

Wood Butcher: I respect that, and from my point of view there's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone's selling price. I was surprised by the description, that 18k violin is for conservatory student on a budget. I don't know many conservatory students who can afford such expensive instrument, so I only asked if this is normal in States, that's all. And from my point of view, as a professional orchestra player, I'd rather choose and buy new instrument in that price range, but it's only my opinion and my choice.

[Violadamore]

14 hours ago, lifestyle_nyc said:

Hello.

I am currently in the market for my forever violin and I recently tried this violin which I really liked the sound of. The shop says it's an early 18th century copy of a Gaspar da Salo (labeled as such) with Maggini style double purfling on the front and places its origins in Southern Germany or Austria. It's priced at the upper end of my budget. If anybody could provide more insight into this instrument, it would be much appreciated. The pictures are taken from the shop's website which are available publicly. Thank you in advance.

The ad that @HoGo posted says "This Gasparo DaSalo copy was built in Southern Austria in the early 1800s", so it's early 19th. century.  The further information that it's got an antique provenance to a Detroit Symphony concertmaster might explain something about the price.  

[Violadamore]

6 minutes ago, Foldejal said:

Wood Butcher: I respect that, and from my point of view there's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone's selling price. I was surprised by the description, that 18k violin is for conservatory student on a budget. I don't know many conservatory students who can afford such expensive instrument, so I only asked if this is normal in States, that's all. And from my point of view, as a professional orchestra player, I'd rather choose and buy new instrument in that price range, but it's only my opinion and my choice.

I can see how they might make that claim.  I'd expect that very few top-flight conservatory students over here are rooting in dumpsters for lunch, and you might notice that the shop offers financing.  

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, deans said:

I'll bet it does. At least the corne block part.

I have no idea how one would decide this by the very blurry pictures, beside some undefined look=irrational assumptions. The scroll has a the geometry of something South German, maybe even Füßen, or Austrian, but who knows if it belongs to the rest? I would doubt that for the belly(which is a two piece with a clear center seam btw).

All considerations about pricing are pointless as long nobody can tell what it is.

[lifestyle_nyc]

9 hours ago, deans said:

Its cool and looks of high quality. I might question the early 18th century part, maybe they mean early 1800s, but I could be wrong.

I meant 19th century. It was a typo...

[Randall The Restorer]

2 hours ago, Foldejal said:

I'm little bit surprised by the price, for that money I can buy new violin from reputable master luthier here where I live. Is 18000usd violin really for conservatory student on a budget in USA?

Dera Foldejal,

Please tell us the country and city where you live so that we can can understand your statement. 

Here in Canada, I can also commission a master-grade bespoke violin or cello for $18,000 CAD -  especially if the luthier lives where business overhead and costs of living are lower.

In the USA and Canada - especially a big city like Toronto, Vancouver, New York or Los Angeles - $18,000 USD does not go very far. Plus, the OP wrote that this was to be a "forever" instrument.

Whatever the 200 (two hundred) year-old object may be, humble or exalted - there is a price to be paid for the patina, historical bragging rights, and sentimental value to the new owner.

Sincerely,

Randy O'Malley

 

[GeorgeH]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

All considerations about pricing are pointless as long nobody can tell what it is.

Not necessarily. Unless it was a violin with a good certificate, I can’t see how it is worth $15-18k. It is pretty clearly a composite violin that is in mediocre condition. 

I was asking about LOB because Brescian models tend to be big - over 360mm. Furthermore violins with double purfling tend to be significantly discounted against “normal” violins. Just compare Vuillaume Maggini model prices with Vuillaume Strad and GDG model prices.  

As one dealer told me, “Classical players tend to be conservative and don’t buy them. Fiddle players tend to like them, but don’t generally buy expensive violins.”

So this violin price has 3 strikes against its price: a composite violin, double purfling, and mediocre condition. If it is oversized, then that is a 4th big strike.

If the OP loves the violin, then I’d suggest that he work on negotiating a much lower price.