Recommendation needed: a "real" burnisher for card scappers (and the like)

[Riccardo964]

7 hours ago, Mark Norfleet said:

I’m a bit amazed by how long this has gone on!

well, we're the same people that thinks that a 0.1mm material removal counts for meaningful sound response on wood plates, so...

[David Burgess]

4 hours ago, Greg Sigworth said:

I looked up in my metals handbook and HSS stands for High Strength Steel and refers to the yield strength of steel; the stress where it will start to bend or yield. There are probably over 40 kinds of HSS steels and the hardness is different from yield strength of steel. The Chinese were in the past selling steels that had the right composition but were not heat treated properly, but that has improved greatly over the years. HSS steels are not designed for hardness but for high yield strength. 

Greg, I was under the impression that HSS was a designation for High Speed Steel, which had to do with maintaining its strength and sharpness at the high temperatures associated with high cutting speeds and feed rates.

Norfleet will know one way or the other.

[David Burgess]

Shanks of most drill bits are quite soft, either from being a different material from the rest of the drill bit, or from being annealed.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

49 minutes ago, Riccardo964 said:

well, we're the same people that thinks that a 0.1mm material removal counts for meaningful sound response on wood plates, so...

Hopefully we also make a living.   

Look.... I understand how a person can get lost in small details and budget issues, but:

Several here have offered information concerning what they use... many have used the same thing for decades.  I am all for spending money on good tools if there is an advantage in owning them (and I'm sure my shop would illustrate that), but several here have offered solutions (the majority of which cost about $30 or less) that some have used for decades. Judging by the work of those who I am familiar with, what they have has worked just fine. Being a rod or a block, with handle or not, 8 mm or 10mm; preference and result depends on how you use it.

If budget is not a problem, by all means buy the more expensive tool if you want to.  I'd make sure it's design is useful for all the tasks you ask of it, but if it makes you more confident go for it!

Just my 2 cents.

[Mark Norfleet]

18 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Greg, I was under the impression that HSS was a designation for High Speed Steel, which had to do with maintaining its strength and sharpness at the high temperatures associated with high cutting speeds and feed rates.

Norfleet will know one way or the other.

Yup, though the abbreviation could obviously be used for both.  In the machining realm I've only known it to refer to High Speed Steel, which is quite hard if heat treated properly and will maintain that hardness at fairly high temperatures, so one could do a lot of quick scraper burnishing...  I have one of the jewelers burnisher as well, which is probably made of HSS, but 99% of the time I use the Tungsten Carbide blocks previously pictured.  One corner of the square one shows a tiny bit of wear.  It is no doubt the corner that was exposed when mounted in the bench where I and my harpsichord maker shop mate did all of our sharpening for ten years.  He was routinely using large "card" or rectangular scrapers with beveled edges and holding them with both hands while applying them with a fair amount of pressure to the "burnisher".

[Greg Sigworth]

20 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Greg, I was under the impression that HSS was a designation for High Speed Steel, which had to do with maintaining its strength and sharpness at the high temperatures associated with high cutting speeds and feed rates.

Norfleet will know one way or the other.

You are right, HSS is the high speed steel designation. They have high carbide content which resists wear due to high speed cutting operations. There are both high strength steels, which I thought HSS was a reference to and also under tool steels there are listed High Speed Steel, shortened here to HSS. You are right. In ASM Engineering Properties of Steel in the tool steel section they include High Speed Steels (not shortened there to HSS ) of two types T and M. The hardest in a tempered condition would be around HRC 64-66 and are either Type T because the major alloying element is Tungsten, up to 21% or type M because the major alloying element is Molybdenum up to 10%. Thank you for correcting this. These steels are loaded with carbides from the carbide formers, Cr, Mo, Co, V and W (tungsten). Note: their hardness is due primarily to their free high carbon content forming martensite and their wear resistance is due more to their high carbide content. Thank you for catching this. 

[LCF]

On 12/1/2025 at 5:11 AM, Riccardo964 said:

well, we're the same people that thinks that a 0.1mm material removal counts for meaningful sound response on wood plates, so...

Congratulations on getting to your fourth page. It is an interesting discussion.

 

On 12/1/2025 at 5:12 AM, David Burgess said:

Greg, I was under the impression that HSS was a designation for High Speed Steel, which had to do with maintaining its strength and sharpness at the high temperatures associated with high cutting speeds and feed rates.
 

The Wikipedia article about HSS is informative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_steel

 

Coincidentally I was given a bundle of HSS thicknesser blades on the weekend. They're a very useful size and shape for various knives and smaller, detail turning wood lathe tools. They seem very tough which makes sense from the view of their original intended use. 

[JacksonMaberry]

On 11/29/2025 at 10:37 PM, JacksonMaberry said:

When I bought mine, there was only a single product. Afaik, that's still the case. I bought mine here, and I don't see multiple diameters? I can't imagine what difference it would make if there were, either.

https://taytools.com/brands/union-manufacturing?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21901920472&gbraid=0AAAAADmpRzG9hCmkHTci1IusHnzoranSp&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0KrJBhCOARIsAGIy9wCf-TLOGpCz1Yg7I1Z-_CzvmNbYap-7D1NQ3vmplnaOTdvNaNN2JZIaApbvEALw_wcB

 

Edit: I stand corrected. Looks like it comes in either 3/16 or 1/4. When I ordered, it was only 3/16 so that's what I've got. 

When I stopped being lazy and read the copy on the linked page, the mfgr says they developed the larger unit (1/4" diameter) so that you could burnish thicker blades, like those used in common scraper planes. So I guess if you are going to use scrapers thicker than the original model can handle, get the bigger one. @Brian in Texas

[Mark Norfleet]

25 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

When I stopped being lazy and read the copy on the linked page, the mfgr says they developed the larger unit (1/4" diameter) so that you could burnish thicker blades, like those used in common scraper planes. So I guess if you are going to use scrapers thicker than the original model can handle, get the bigger one. @Brian in Texas

As I may have mentioned earlier, the corner radius of the tools I use to burnish scrapers is about 1 mm.  VERY occasionally I’ll use the flat face if I wand a mild hook on extra sharp scrapers for tasks such as delicate scraping of varnish.

I wonder when this topic will see enough burnishing…. Really, I just wonder and don’t intend this musing as a challenge.

[JacksonMaberry]

2 hours ago, Mark Norfleet said:

As I may have mentioned earlier, the corner radius of the tools I use to burnish scrapers is about 1 mm.  VERY occasionally I’ll use the flat face if I wand a mild hook on extra sharp scrapers for tasks such as delicate scraping of varnish.

I wonder when this topic will see enough burnishing…. Really, I just wonder and don’t intend this musing as a challenge.

Yeah, you did mention that! I'd be interested in trying a chonk of carbide like you posted a photo of, I'll see if I can find one. I like the idea of having it fixed in the bench and moving the scraper instead. I've always found it a little... Wrong(?) to clamp one of my curved profile scrapers in a bench vise, even padded with leather jaws, to burnish it because I worry that the edge I've already burnished, being clamped in the vise, will have its burr marred. 

Edit: with regard to the post of mine you replied to, Mark, just want to clarify that all I was doing was sharing the manufacturer's notes about the difference between their two models. It has nothing to do with my own opinions, I just wanted to help answer @Brian in Texasquestion. 

[Mike_Danielson]

This is a case where everyone is over-thinking it.  When it is this popular and gets so many opinions, this usually means it is not very important as an issue.

Just purchase a burnisher from some dealer--there are many.  Do not forget to run a lubricated cloth over the burniser before using it--that is probably the most important thing to do.

[Mark Norfleet]

17 minutes ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Do not forget to run a lubricated cloth over the burniser before using it--that is probably the most important thing to do.

Everyone?!
I’ve been doing it so wrong for SO long!  I’ve never even thought or heard about doing this.

[JacksonMaberry]

17 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

Everyone?!
I’ve been doing it so wrong for SO long!  I’ve never even thought or heard about doing this.

When I remember, I'll rub the burnished behind my ear. It's always at least a little oily back there. 

[Don Noon]

11 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Do not forget to run a lubricated cloth over the burniser before using it--that is probably the most important thing to do.

and clean the lubricant off of the scraper before touching the wood.

[Davide Sora]

14 hours ago, Mark Norfleet said:

Everyone?!
I’ve been doing it so wrong for SO long!  I’ve never even thought or heard about doing this.

Me too.

I have never lubricated my burnisher, and honestly, I have never felt the need to.

[Don Noon]

I have tried it, and the burnisher/scraper slide a bit easier against each other.  But I don't see it as necessary, and don't bother with it.

[HoGo]

I have done that when working on scraper made of harder steel and needed a bit more pressure. My most used scrapers made of abandoned fret saw (tenon saw) don't need any extra force.

[Davide Sora]

6 hours ago, Don Noon said:

I have tried it, and the burnisher/scraper slide a bit easier against each other.  But I don't see it as necessary, and don't bother with it.

Yep, and I would be very concerned about contaminating the wood with the lubricant. It is not easy to be sure whether we have completely removed every trace of oil from the metal, let alone removing it from the wood.

[Mike_Danielson]

1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

Yep, and I would be very concerned about contaminating the wood with the lubricant. It is not easy to be sure whether we have completely removed every trace of oil from the metal, let alone removing it from the wood.

David, you are being a Wuss.  There is almost no oil on the burnisher.  I hope you realize that unless you use rubber gloves, your instruments are going to be contaminated with oils and grease from your skin.

Don't you realize it is much easier to turn the edge, and the edge is smoother with a tiny amount of lubricant?

Let us practice clear thinking.

[not telling]

36 minutes ago, Mike_Danielson said:

David, you are being a Wuss.  There is almost no oil on the burnisher.  I hope you realize that unless you use rubber gloves, your instruments are going to be contaminated with oils and grease from your skin.

Don't you realize it is much easier to turn the edge, and the edge is smoother with a tiny amount of lubricant?

Let us practice clear thinking.

So much audacity. I've stayed away for awhile but...what?  If turning an edge with a burnisher presents a challenge that you need to make easier somehow, it is probably you that is the wuss. Make cupcakes or something.

[JacksonMaberry]

26 minutes ago, not telling said:

So much audacity. I've stayed away for awhile but...what?  If turning an edge with a burnisher presents a challenge that you need to make easier somehow, it is probably you that is the wuss. Make cupcakes or something.

He's a retired engineer. You know they know everything 

[not telling]

Just now, JacksonMaberry said:

He's a retired engineer. You know they know everything 

It took me 30 seconds perusing the threads yesterday to realize there's another bout of "we're all the same thing" going on. I've seen it before. I've gotten too comfortable saying whatever. But never in that way. When we are lucky enough to hear from Davide Sora on the regular, about anything, we want to not "flub" it up. I say "we" but speak for me only obviously. Roger Hargrave used to talk about eating beans on toast, anything! Awesome! Sometimes, often, he'd drop a truth bomb of his violin experience and knowledge. Him, Melvin Goldsmith, Bruce Carlson, all these guys who used to post here, about amazing knowledge, they probably don't because of too many encounters with that kind of dude. No, we are not all the same. Telling Davide to practice some clear thinking is just...crazy...but he doesn't need defended. I just miss how Maestronet was several years ago.

[JacksonMaberry]

1 hour ago, not telling said:

It took me 30 seconds perusing the threads yesterday to realize there's another bout of "we're all the same thing" going on. I've seen it before. I've gotten too comfortable saying whatever. But never in that way. When we are lucky enough to hear from Davide Sora on the regular, about anything, we want to not "flub" it up. I say "we" but speak for me only obviously. Roger Hargrave used to talk about eating beans on toast, anything! Awesome! Sometimes, often, he'd drop a truth bomb of his violin experience and knowledge. Him, Melvin Goldsmith, Bruce Carlson, all these guys who used to post here, about amazing knowledge, they probably don't because of too many encounters with that kind of dude. No, we are not all the same. Telling Davide to practice some clear thinking is just...crazy...but he doesn't need defended. I just miss how Maestronet was several years ago.

Personally, Maestronet feels the same to me as it did when I joined in 2013 or so. Some of the cast has changed, but the overall character, at least in my view has always been about the same - there's a handful of genuine, generous contributors and then there's... Everyone else.

[Don Noon]

3 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

He's a retired engineer. You know they know everything 

Some of us do.  The rest just think they do (but that can apply to almost everyone, not just engineers).

[JacksonMaberry]

39 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Some of us do.  The rest just think they do (but that can apply to almost everyone, not just engineers).

You're an exception, Don. You're a retired engineer who actually sort of does know everything.