Recommendation needed: a "real" burnisher for card scappers (and the like)

[Don Noon]

I have been using a HSS Crown burnisher for a few years, with no scrapes ion it yet.  Available from Amazon, Rockler, and other places for $26.  It's not worth my time to make one.  I don't use any super-hard scrapers, though.

[Don Noon]

14 hours ago, Riccardo964 said:

Perhaps I should by a pure Tungsten Rod:

No, you shouldn't.  Pure tungsten isn't very hard.

Tungsten carbide is MUCH harder, and rods aren't all that costly.  If I wanted to make a burnisher, I'd use that.

[Violadamore]

4 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

Buy a piece of 3/8" HSS drill stock, heat it red hot and quench it immediately in oil. It'll be very hard, but brittle. In that state, it'll make a good burnishing tool.  Glue it into a wood handle with epoxy, and you're good to go.

What Bill said, but carefully quench it in water to be sure it's extra hard.  Or.....if you are willing to pay $100 or so, find a migaki needle:

https://www.namikawa-ltd.com/product/66

They're used for polishing (by burnishing) the flawless mirror finish on the upper sides and back of "samurai swords".  I'd be darned surprised if your scraper could scratch one.   

[Riccardo964]

7 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

No, you shouldn't.  (... buy a pure tungsten rod ...)

I really don't have $10k laying around  (I was attempting at a joke, given the price - I can see that I've failed )

[Riccardo964]

I'm thinking on buying this (£21.99):

Perhaps it'll do the trick...

Quote

This Scraper Burnisher is constructed from chrome molybdenum steel that is heat-treated to HRC 61.

Best,

Riccardo964

[Nathan Wilde]

Tungsten carbide drills!

[LCF]

19 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

I’ve had a few burnishing tools over the years, of varying quality.

The one I like best is hard enough that it’s very difficult to mark it with a tool. If I pushed hard enough, I might be able to scratch it. The first one I bought was a “Two Cherries” burnisher, and I always found it to be surprisingly soft. At the first shop where I worked,  coworker told me that he simply used the shaft of a screwdriver to burnish. Years later when I had tools in two different places but only one burnisher, I tried the screwdriver. I found that its shaft was much more effective than the burnisher I had and I used that method for a long time without any issue. I eventually got a nicer one for my home workshop, but I have to admit that it’s not actually that much of a step up—the screwdriver was really quite good. 
 

I’ve seen two different approaches to burnishing: 

1) One pass with the tool using heavy and consistent pressure. This produces a more aggressive edge that will last a little longer and can be more efficient if the scraper is being used for shaping wood. 
 

2) At least one pass (maybe two or three) using only the bare minimum pressure needed to turn the edge. This approach provides a less pronounced edge but it will still have a good amount of cutting power. The edge will need to be re-burnished much more often, but it’s easier to accomplish. 
 

If you don’t use a lot of pressure to turn the edge, the burnisher doesn’t need to be quite as hard. 

I normally use a screwdriver, a nice old Stanley about 9 or 10mm diameter. It has lasted for years and seems very tough. With different pressures and moves I can get a range of edge types. If it isn't close to hand the back of a gouge will do the job. 

[LCF]

Also, perhaps it depends on the exact alloy, but my understanding is that hss is air hardening and cannot be annealed(*) so I'd always assumed it couldn't be hardened, but might stress-crack if quenched in water.

 

(*) Otherwise I'd have to stop shaping it with the angle grinder ...

[Riccardo964]

I was thinking how serious this "problem" really is, like sharpening, each one of you here has a particular method and tool "to make a burr on a scraper"......... I was hoping for a definitive answer, one that's not a screw driver  but that's ok...

I'll take everything discussed here into advisement.

Best,

Riccardo964

[Don Noon]

47 minutes ago, Riccardo964 said:

I was thinking how serious this "problem" really is...

I haven't noticed any problem, and it seems most others haven't either.

Most scrapers are not particularly hard; ~Rc40, or maybe Rc50 for ones that I see advertised as "super-hard".  HSS rod, hardened, would be around Rc60, and tungsten carbide Rc80.  So a HSS burnisher should be fine, and for $25 - $30 there should be no problem.

"Problems" would be if you somehow get exotic scraper steel hardened to the max, or a burnisher of unknown material and hardness, or perhaps a burnisher that isn't what it claims to be.

[Riccardo964]

well, "There are more ways than one to skin a cat," indeed

[Davide Sora]

48 minutes ago, Riccardo964 said:

well, "There are more ways than one to skin a cat," indeed

Yes, and ultimately, using the burnisher is a matter of developing the sensitivity needed to perceive when the correct burr is formed. The most common mistake is often using too much pressure and too much angle, especially on newly sharpened scrapers with extremely sharp edges. As you burnish, the effective angles will become wider, and the pressure and angle required will need to be increased accordingly. However, without a doubt, a steel burnisher that is too soft or has an imperfectly smooth surface will not work well.

[Riccardo964]

1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

newly sharpened scrapers

When you say this above, you mean "when one removes previous burrs using a file"? Or something else?

Thanks for your insights, and you're perfectly right, the most common mistake that perhaps I'm making is too much pressure and too much angle - I will review my 'technique'.

Thanks mille,

Riccardo964

[The Violin Beautiful]

13 hours ago, Don Noon said:

I have been using a HSS Crown burnisher for a few years, with no scrapes ion it yet.  Available from Amazon, Rockler, and other places for $26.  It's not worth my time to make one.  I don't use any super-hard scrapers, though.

I have this as well and have no complaints. 

[Greg Sigworth]

For what it's worth. Hardened carbon steel will be about HRC 58-62 after it's tempered which it will be. Un-tempered will be about HRC 66 max. Carbide steel, which I have some of can be HRC 77. It can be mostly tungsten carbide with very little iron in it. Hardened tool steels, which HHS is, will only be at the most HRC 64 tempered depending on its content. Look for solid carbide steel and it will be very difficult to scratch. It will have a density much greater than tool steel as Fe iron has a weight of 55.85 and W Tungsten 183.8 on the periodic table of the elements. Tungsten and other carbide forming metals will be the main elements in carbide steel. If the steel you are feeling is much heaver than a similar piece of tool steel you will know it is a carbide steel. Of course it has to be properly hardened to have a correct hardness. Steel hardness and wear resistance are to different things though related. The Roman roads of the ancient world still exist today because the stones acted like the carbides in steel that would not wear away. A burnisher made out of carbide steel is almost like a solid carbide block. But if you have a high carbon tool steel burnisher, depending on the heat treatment of scrapers, they could be almost as hard as the burnisher used. Evan Smith above is describing a good solid carbide burnisher. A tool steel burnisher will work if used correctly but some scrapers are very hard and could scrape the burnisher. 

[Violadamore]

7 hours ago, LCF said:

Also, perhaps it depends on the exact alloy, but my understanding is that hss is air hardening and cannot be annealed(*) so I'd always assumed it couldn't be hardened, but might stress-crack if quenched in water.

 

(*) Otherwise I'd have to stop shaping it with the angle grinder ...

Ever noted the water receptacle on tool grinders?     The exact alloy (and I wouldn't assume anything about what's actually in cheap drill rod) can vary a great deal, especially when it comes from countries that don't adhere to international standards (e.g., investigate the "T10" controversies on sword and knife forums, etc.  ).  

I do have a reservation on encouraging @Riccardo964 to make his own superhard burnisher.  Any oxide layers produced in the process will have to be buffed off, or otherwise removed, which can be a PITA.

Riccardo, have you tried using the outside of a gouge, the back of a knife, or something similar?  A lot of carving tools could be hard enough, especially Japanese.  

[Vincent C]

I also use a round tungsten carbide rod, 3/8" by 6" long. Said to be Rockwell c 80, and it works great. It was under $20 on evilBay. Edited November 25, 2025 by Vincent C

[Evan Smith]

4 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Riccardo, have you tried using the outside of a gouge, the back of a knife, or something similar?  A lot of carving tools could be hard enough, especially Japanese.  

You make a point here, in that almost anything reasonable will work to turn a burr on a scraper. 
For years, I just used chrome Phillips screwdrivers, even a chrome square shank screwdriver, which has an extra small radius on the corner can work quite well.
The issue here might not be the burnisher itself, but I would dare to guess it’s the improper preparation of the scraper itself before turning the bur .

The 90° angle if that’s what you’re using that intersects the side in the cutting face is a scraper. Should be sharp enough to cut you before you even roll a burr. I’ve cut myself many times on the backside of flat chisel’s because they were sharpened so flat and square on the edges that they will slice you like a knife.
A scraper needs to be prepared just as carefully before any kind of a decent burr can be obtained. 
I will often sharpen the scraper and use it for quite a while before I even put a burr on it, once it quit skiing quite so clean lane. It’s pretty easy to put a burn on at that point because the edge is still sharp enough. But you’ll never produce a nice cutting burr on a scraper unless the edge is in really good shape.
I will use the belt sander to clean up the edge of a scraper to fresh material all the way across and then hand flatten the sides and remove any bars, left from the belt, sander and hand lap, the sides, and the face and finish it up on an Arkansas stone charged with Munro oxide, which leaves it highly polished, and you can get a really nice per if you start there, and you have a nice tool to roll the burr with.

yeah, I’m gonna leave this be as is, I think it’s rather quaint, sounds like maybe I live in northern Mongolia and I’m using a really bad translator, as in do not over tighten or blade is to break.

If you don’t get the idea now, then forget it, fur FUR get GIT it.
ha ha ha ha, it’s asking me if this is English what do you think?

 

 

[LCF]

17 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Ever noted the water receptacle on tool grinders?    

 

 

Yes, very handy for dipping the fingers in as the tools get too hot.

I was taught not to quench hss lathe tools, maybe to cool them a bit if necessary. 

Some (most?) drills are made from hss but so-called drill rod is generally just high carbon steel a bit harder than what we used to call silver steel. It comes in an annealed state and can be bored, turned and milled with hss tooling, and filed.  But proper HSS full of delicious chromium, tasty molybdenum or tungsten with vitamins and minerals never gets soft. You should wear a dust mask when grinding it since those constituents constitute a respiratory hazard. Even the vitamins. 

 

 

 

 

[Greg Sigworth]

On 11/25/2025 at 6:47 AM, LCF said:

Also, perhaps it depends on the exact alloy, but my understanding is that hss is air hardening and cannot be annealed(*) so I'd always assumed it couldn't be hardened, but might stress-crack if quenched in water.

 

(*) Otherwise I'd have to stop shaping it with the angle grinder ...

Tool steels often have a letter in the designation, W, A or possibly O which stand for Water, Air or Oil. This is the medium that it is to be quenched into. Air hardening steel like A1 or A2 tool steel are to be quenched in air; that is when at temperature you just let it cool in air and it will be hardened as the W steels have to be quenched in water and O steels in oil. Why is this so? Iron at a high temperature, say above 1330 deg F, exists as Austinite a face centered structure and has a high solubility of carbon; when it is it cooled it transforms to body centered ferrite which has a low solubility of carbon. When cooled fast the carbon gets trapped in the matrix and forms hard martensite. The speed for it to be trapped and form martensite determines the quenching medium; water-fast, oil- slower and air very slow.  Air hardening steels harden by simply letting them cool in air; you quench the steel in air medium. 

[Brian in Texas]

Not burnishing related, but here's a question about sharpening card scrapers.

What grit do you all sharpen your scrapers to prior to burnishing and turning a hook? I'm still fairly new at this and struggling to get a feel for this particular step.

[Davide Sora]

6 minutes ago, Brian in Texas said:

Not burnishing related, but here's a question about sharpening card scrapers.

What grit do you all sharpen your scrapers to prior to burnishing and turning a hook? I'm still fairly new at this and struggling to get a feel for this particular step.

I remove the file marks with the 1200 grit, then a quick pass on the 4000 just to polish. If you overdo it, the risk of rounding the edges is high. I sharpen my scrapers freehand and at a 90° angle. If I were to sharpen them at a sharper angle, or to use them without turning the edge with the burnisher, I would pay more attention to sharpening them as sharp as a knife.

[Evan Smith]

You can use any angle for cutting edge if you like as long as it is sharp. I like 90 most of the time. You can put a burr on a knife edge, but it will be super aggressive, and that would be overkill for spruce. But no matter what angle you use it needs to be as sharp as you can possibly get it preferably even polished. Then when you roll the burr, the edge of the burr is also very sharp and clean. If the initial edge doesn’t start out perfect the burr will not be perfect.

 

I just scraped the top of a nice old solid, walnut desk and refinish it.
I left the edge of the scraper at 90° sharp and polished, and it does an excellent job of putting a super fine finish, it removes plenty of wood and just the right amount, about like 600 grit sandpaper. If I were to put a hook on the very same scraper, it would leave the finish rough and cut not nearly as smooth and that’s not what I want so I leave it at 90 but sharp. At this point I could still roll of burr on this large scraper and it would work excellent, but it would take a piece of carbide because this is a very large hardened steel scraper. I laid a scraper. I normally use for my violins next to it so you can see the difference in size.

[LCF]

On 11/26/2025 at 10:26 AM, Evan Smith said:

I think it’s rather quaint, sounds like maybe I live in northern Mongolia and I’m using a really bad translator, as in do not over tighten or blade is to break.

If you don’t get the idea now, then forget it, fur FUR get GIT it.
ha ha ha ha, it’s asking me if this is English what do you think?

 

 

Yurr English is very good for a second language and your brogue is pleasing to my auricles. 

[MikeC]

I use one of these, an old jewelry burnisher.