Recommendation needed: a "real" burnisher for card scappers (and the like)

[Riccardo964]

Hello,

    I have bought a HSS bar/rod for burnishing card scrappers, however, they get 'marked' all over the place, meaning that the scrapper's steel is harder than the things I've been buying.

   Could you please recommend me a good burnisher that you use that "does the job" of creating the burr in the scrapper effectively?

Thanks a million, maestros.

Riccardo964

 

[Shelbow]

The only one that I could ever get to work was the Veritas one.

https://ebay.us/m/ftJlfa

I'm sure there are others though.

[HoGo]

What steel are your scrapers? Most are carbon steel (I guess) hardened just to level where the steel can be mashed/bent by pressure of the burnisher to create hook without chipping or breaking  the edge. Some super brand scrapers are made out of way too hard steel so common burnishers stick or get scratched.

Many shops offer carbide burnishers they are harder than any steel you can encounter in scrapers.

Or you can just look for polished carbide rod stock to make your own.

PS: I've used a piece of old rattail file with teeth ground away and polished to mirror surface. I stuck it into wooden handle and done...

[eliseveldt]

4 hours ago, Riccardo964 said:

Hello,

    I have bought a HSS bar/rod for burnishing card scrappers, however, they get 'marked' all over the place, meaning that the scrapper's steel is harder than the things I've been buying.

   Could you please recommend me a good burnisher that you use that "does the job" of creating the burr in the scrapper effectively?

Thanks a million, maestros.

Riccardo964

 

good quality swiss files are very hard. you can grind and polish them. but you need a file thats hardened all the way trough. vallorbe and the likes are good choises

[FiddleDoug]

Just do a search on ebay for "carbide rod". Lots of them there for around $20.

[Bodacious Cowboy]

The Arno carbide burnisher is excellent. 
https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/shop/tools/sharpening/118040-arno-carbide-burnisher

[HoGo]

Or get 1/4" hardened steel pins, they are as hard as steel goes.

[Dave Slight]

7 hours ago, Riccardo964 said:

Hello,

    I have bought a HSS bar/rod for burnishing card scrappers, however, they get 'marked' all over the place, meaning that the scrapper's steel is harder than the things I've been buying.

   Could you please recommend me a good burnisher that you use that "does the job" of creating the burr in the scrapper effectively?

Thanks a million, maestros.

Riccardo964

 

In general, scrapers are around 48-52 hrc for spring and carbon steel. There are some brands making much harder scrapers, Veritas is one.
 

These extra hard scrapers can cut into the burnisher, this is what may have happened in your case.

Not all burnishers are good for our purpose. The Clico Clifton burnisher seems very ineffective, despite being a large diameter and looking fancy.
I’d say the same for the Veritas tri burnisher, which is a bit lightweight.

I have a Kirchen two cherries burnisher which I bought when I was 18, and starting out. It has worked well for all these years, though there were a couple of times hard scrapers marked the steel. 
If I was buying tools again now, I’d get a carbide one.

[Brian in Texas]

I'm looking at getting an Accu-Burr burnisher myself. The built in grooves that help establish hooks with varying aggressiveness seems like a huge advantage. 

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/115473-accu-burr-burnishing-rod?utm_campaign=USA|DSA|PageFeed|Tools|LowPriceTier&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19172799285&gbraid=0AAAAAClVJ5iYyk0tCO5MEKvlA6TzP5EDP&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoZDJBhC0ARIsAERP-F8rfzH0XHeazMSkDF8GICgMKt6cx-fedlwAdWab59Y1wM4-CYE5DPoaAlOiEALw_wcB

[HoGo]

Those look interesting but I guess they will eventually wear sooner than normal burnishers. You will be using exactly the very same single spot every time you burnish your scraper and WILL wear no matter if it is from carbide.

I try to pull the scraper along edge while sliding from handle towards tip of burnisher in kinda "slicing" action. Sometimes I rotate the burnisher at the same time. This prevents even harder steels scratching into my burnisher and I can start at nearly 90 degrees slowly shaping the "head" of scraper and slowly increase the angle with succesive strokes to create the hooks.

I use tiny dot of vaseline or machine oil on burnisher from time to time that helps a lot if you need to push harder than normal.

[Davide Sora]

56 minutes ago, Brian in Texas said:

I'm looking at getting an Accu-Burr burnisher myself. The built in grooves that help establish hooks with varying aggressiveness seems like a huge advantage. 

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/115473-accu-burr-burnishing-rod?utm_campaign=USA|DSA|PageFeed|Tools|LowPriceTier&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19172799285&gbraid=0AAAAAClVJ5iYyk0tCO5MEKvlA6TzP5EDP&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoZDJBhC0ARIsAERP-F8rfzH0XHeazMSkDF8GICgMKt6cx-fedlwAdWab59Y1wM4-CYE5DPoaAlOiEALw_wcB

I agree with what HoGo said, always using the same spot of the burnisher doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and it prevents a freer movement of the burnisher. Mine is an 8mm diameter rod that's 200mm long. It doesn't scratch with scrapers. Unfortunately, I have no idea what type of steel it is, but I assume it's tool steel, perhaps tungsten. This length allows you to vary the surface in contact with the scrapers and makes them very easy to handle for setting the angle and regulating the pressure.

[Riccardo964]

When one searches Amazon for "carbide rod", they show a lot of HSS (which is what I have, that gets dented when used in a scrapper, for some reason). 

AI tells me that carbide is different from HSS:

Quote

Carbide and HSS are two different types of cutting tool materials. High-speed steel (HSS) is a type of steel alloy, while carbide (specifically, tungsten carbide) is a hard chemical compound, and the two have different properties, applications, and costs.

This product next was recommended:

Has somebody used so far? Let me know your experience, as this is a bit heavy on price (£110.21).

Perhaps I should by a pure Tungsten Rod:

A bit overpriced though

 

Best,

Riccardo964

 

Edit:

 

1 hour ago, Brian in Texas said:

I'm looking at getting an Accu-Burr burnisher myself.

Just read this - sorry!!

 

 

[The Violin Beautiful]

I’ve had a few burnishing tools over the years, of varying quality.

The one I like best is hard enough that it’s very difficult to mark it with a tool. If I pushed hard enough, I might be able to scratch it. The first one I bought was a “Two Cherries” burnisher, and I always found it to be surprisingly soft. At the first shop where I worked,  coworker told me that he simply used the shaft of a screwdriver to burnish. Years later when I had tools in two different places but only one burnisher, I tried the screwdriver. I found that its shaft was much more effective than the burnisher I had and I used that method for a long time without any issue. I eventually got a nicer one for my home workshop, but I have to admit that it’s not actually that much of a step up—the screwdriver was really quite good. 
 

I’ve seen two different approaches to burnishing: 

1) One pass with the tool using heavy and consistent pressure. This produces a more aggressive edge that will last a little longer and can be more efficient if the scraper is being used for shaping wood. 
 

2) At least one pass (maybe two or three) using only the bare minimum pressure needed to turn the edge. This approach provides a less pronounced edge but it will still have a good amount of cutting power. The edge will need to be re-burnished much more often, but it’s easier to accomplish. 
 

If you don’t use a lot of pressure to turn the edge, the burnisher doesn’t need to be quite as hard. 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

40 plus years.  Nothing fancy.  Smooth as ever:

I have a couple smaller ones as well, but the one above gets the most use.

[Mark Norfleet]

I use a small piece of tungsten carbide as well.  I just set it on my bench and pull the scraper over it.  At one point it was inset into the edge of my bench.  After I moved my shop I didn’t put it back in a bench, but probably should for safety reasons.  A short section of rod is all one needs for a few lifetimes.

[Brian in Texas]

25 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

I use a small piece of tungsten carbide as well.  I just set it on my bench and pull the scraper over it.  At one point it was inset into the edge of my bench.  After I moved my shop I didn’t put it back in a bench, but probably should for safety reasons.  A short section of rod is all one needs for a few lifetimes.

That's an interesting way to do that. I do have a straight rod burninsher and might give that a go. Part of the reason I was looking at the Accu-Burr is because I have a bugger of a time turning a hook on my curved scrapers. I've watched every video on the subject that I can find, but I just haven't quite gotten a feel for it yet.

Maybe your method will be easier than clamping the scraper in the vise and trying to turn a hook by angling the rod.

[FiddleDoug]

2 hours ago, Riccardo964 said:

When one searches Amazon for "carbide rod", they show a lot of HSS (which is what I have, that gets dented when used in a scrapper, for some reason). 

AI tells me that carbide is different from HSS:

This product next was recommended:

Has somebody used so far? Let me know your experience, as this is a bit heavy on price (£110.21).

Perhaps I should by a pure Tungsten Rod:

A bit overpriced though

 

Best,

Riccardo964

 

Edit:

 

Just read this - sorry!!

 

 

If you do a search for "carbide rod" on ebay, not Amazon, this is the first thing that comes up. Lots more there as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/317535739488?_skw=carbide+rod&itmmeta=01KAVEBKNTHMDZ7Y26A41NWSEX&hash=item49ee9ade60:g:a1kAAOSw8-Zleteq&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAAwFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1fFxd96kPGfD%2BKq8g49BAgNealTxvCqVA3FzhMc5hA0BjN6RnyvbCn5Bk78aUqjWsBrHXKvtkN4n4uflahXoNDh0xIMDFx9MwpLXFBC7BJ%2Fd8UN4C0sSPEAxIqC79dYi8tGrhlLddP2yrTSp077kt7touXM7YvQzyWsn3z9Xqrcg%2FK2LL9PBJ8WtG4Td%2FGX%2FALaO8%2Boh01j01W2fXrYGWOTZq26HAI6aukTepgzCHBQXQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABlBMUJK7ru7WZg

[Will Turner]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

40 plus years.  Nothing fancy.  Smooth as ever:

I have a couple smaller ones as well, but the one above gets the most use.

Looks a lot like the one I picked up from MetMusic - https://www.metmusic.com/tools/kunz-planes/29520-kunz-burnisher-scraper-sharpener

Kunz Burnisher.

[Conor Russell]

I have a couple of three cornered files, polished up. They give me a variety of surfaces, and I use them to burnish metal, repairs and edgework and to turn scrapers. They're hard.

 

I also have a polished half round, that I use as a burnisher, and as a mandrel to plannish distorted ferrules.

[Bodacious Cowboy]

6 hours ago, Dave Slight said:

Not all burnishers are good for our purpose. The Clico Clifton burnisher seems very ineffective, despite being a large diameter and looking fancy.

I have one of these in a drawer somewhere, gathering dust. Absolutely useless.

[Evan Smith]

I’ve tried everything I could find, chrome, plated, screwdrivers, chrome, steel files that are polished, and I was unsatisfied with all of them including the famous red handled burnisher. I still have that. What I don’t like about all those as you can feel the friction between the metal kind of a gauling sensation, even on soft, steel scrapers. So,,,  As I really like thin spring steel for scrapers,Solid carbide rod is absolutely wonderful. It is smooth leaves a really nice edge and there’s nothing too hard for it to master. I have purchased a number of these and sent them to my violin, making friends, yes, I do have an occasional friend. They need to be perfectly straight these curvy ones to roll the burr for you are nasty. You can never tell what you got. I like to do the angle of my own burrs I like about a 3/8 inch diameter 12 inch long, solid carbide rod. It feels good in the hand, nice and heavy, and it’s great to swat flies with. I think those are about up to $100 apiece now. First one I bought they were around 20 bucks. Oh how time flies. 

I was refinishing some kitchen cabinets for someone, and my carbide rod just vanished, what a drag, had to buy another one.
If  I don’t have my solid, carbide rod, then I just don’t have a burnisher.  
 

Evan, never an opinion whatsoever.

[Brian in Texas]

Hmm. Looking at the specs of my burnisher, it's made from high speed steel and not carbide. Going off the advice on this thread here, it sounds like I need to upgrade to carbide. Perhaps a shoddy burnisher might explain some of the difficulties I've been having.

[bardia]

6 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

من با حرف HoGo موافقم، به نظر من همیشه استفاده از یک نقطه ثابت برای برنیشر ایده خوبی نیست و مانع حرکت آزادانه‌تر برنیشر می‌شود. میله من ۸ میلی‌متر قطر و ۲۰۰ میلی‌متر طول دارد. با تراشنده‌ها خراشیده نمی‌شود. متأسفانه، من نمی‌دانم جنس فولاد چیست، اما حدس می‌زنم از جنس فولاد ابزار باشد، شاید تنگستن. این طول به شما امکان می‌دهد سطح تماس با تراشنده‌ها را تغییر دهید و کار با آنها را برای تنظیم زاویه و تنظیم فشار بسیار آسان می‌کند.

I suspect that it is most likely Böhler steel; in fact, it is high-hardness tool steel, around 68 Rockwell C, which machinists use for machining steel.

 

[Mark Norfleet]

5 hours ago, Brian in Texas said:

Maybe your method will be easier than clamping the scraper in the vise and trying to turn a hook by angling the rod.

It might be safer too.  One thing to mention is that many will renew a scraper edge by burnishing the long flat side and then re-forming a hook.  That has never been my practice.  I’ve nearly always used a bevel edged scraper which is pretty finely finished, and put a hook on that.  Both of the bits of carbide I use have a pretty small radius on their corners, about 1-1.5mm.  I don’t know if these shapes are still available as carbide cutting tool technology has advanced a lot in the last 3-4 decades.

[Bill Yacey]

Buy a piece of 3/8" HSS drill stock, heat it red hot and quench it immediately in oil. It'll be very hard, but brittle. In that state, it'll make a good burnishing tool.  Glue it into a wood handle with epoxy, and you're good to go.