Good sounding small violas?

[Nick Allen]

Lately Tom Croen has been pumping out some of the best small violas that I've ever heard. Like, 15 1/4" small. But they sound huge. 

[joerobson]

On 10/28/2025 at 1:12 AM, Phia said:

Hello!

Does anybody have any recommendations for small violas no more than 15.5" w/ a big sound? Price range up to 20k

It's like finding a needle in a haystack 

Cheers,

Phia

Contact Korinthian Violins in Milwaukee WI. 414 218 8341.

[kaman]

Thinking, since the OP mentioned wrist pain as an obstacle to playing a larger viola...

In my experience there's two different ways that a larger instrument causes physical problems (other than just weight)

1) There's the length of the body + string length, in other words whether it's just difficult to reach all the way to first position (or half position).  The string length can vary, so it's two violas with the same body length could feel pretty different in that regards.  I'm not a maker so will defer to the actual luthiers on this forum to comment on this.

2) There's the reach back towards the player's head to try to play in high positions on the A string.  I think this would be more likely to cause me wrist problems and is also quite variable between models.  Actually of many violas I've tried one of the instruments that I thought was most likely to give me problems was a very small instrument (I can't remember if it was 15" or 15.25") because the upper bouts were made very wide to compensate for the small body length.

I'm just wondering if it might help you to figure out more specifically what you need if you are talking to shops or makers.

I did once try a nice-sounding 15.5" viola that was a Bill Scott workshop viola, and I think would be in the price range mentioned.  Compared to a 16" or larger instrument it wouldn't be a "big sound" but maybe a workshop instrument from a good maker could be an avenue to explore as well. 

 

 

[Marty Kasprzyk]

17 minutes ago, kaman said:

Thinking, since the OP mentioned wrist pain as an obstacle to playing a larger viola...

In my experience there's two different ways that a larger instrument causes physical problems (other than just weight)

1) There's the length of the body + string length, in other words whether it's just difficult to reach all the way to first position (or half position).  The string length can vary, so it's two violas with the same body length could feel pretty different in that regards.  I'm not a maker so will defer to the actual luthiers on this forum to comment on this.

2) There's the reach back towards the player's head to try to play in high positions on the A string.  I think this would be more likely to cause me wrist problems and is also quite variable between models.  Actually of many violas I've tried one of the instruments that I thought was most likely to give me problems was a very small instrument (I can't remember if it was 15" or 15.25") because the upper bouts were made very wide to compensate for the small body length.

I'm just wondering if it might help you to figure out more specifically what you need if you are talking to shops or makers.

I did once try a nice-sounding 15.5" viola that was a Bill Scott workshop viola, and I think would be in the price range mentioned.  Compared to a 16" or larger instrument it wouldn't be a "big sound" but maybe a workshop instrument from a good maker could be an avenue to explore as well. 

 

 

I very much agree with your comments.

The "reach length" which is the distance from the nut to the end of the instrument might be the best measurement to compare instrument sizes.

The player's left arm is heavy so using a short instrument moves their arm closer to the player's body therefore the torque (reach length times weight) or moment arm (if you like puns) is less. Thus a short instrument reduces the stress on the shoulder muscles which reduces injuries.  A low viola weight also helps but since it is small compared the the player's arm weight, it isn't as important as the reach length.  

I make my upper right bout shape narrow and shallow to make it easier to reach high positions.  A large internal volume is achieved with a short body by having a very high rib height in other places.  The normal exterior space between the bottom plate and the shoulder is incorporated into the instrument body rather being wasted by using a shoulder rest.  The bottom plate is bent to give the same support as a shoulder rest. 

[Dwight Brown]

I'm not a small person in height or width :-) I played a 16 5/8" viola from high school through college and into decades of teaching.  I had a problem that I called "Cement Wrist".  My left wrist would get rigid and immobile.  I tried about anything and everything to get it to quit.  I wound up teaching most of the time with a violin and that actually worked out fine as a school teacher. Much later on I bought a very nice William Whedbee 16" viola at auction and all of a sudden I could play that instrument with no wrist problems.  I realize it's only 5/8" but It sure seemed to make a big difference.  I am willing to admit that it may all have been between my ears but it did seem to help a lot.  God knows that I'm not threat to the Primrose Contest but it sure is nice to play without pain. 

DLB

[deans]

49 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

I'm not a small person in height or width :-) I played a 16 5/8" viola from high school through college and into decades of teaching.  I had a problem that I called "Cement Wrist".  My left wrist would get ridged and immobile.  I tried about anything and everything to get it to quit.  I wound up teaching most of the time with a violin and that actually worked out fine as a school teacher. Much later on I bought a very nice William Whedbee 16" viola at auction and all of a sudden I could play that instrument with no wrist problems.  I realize it's only 5/8" but It sure seemed to make a big difference.  I am willing to admit that it may all have been between my ears but it did seem to help a lot.  God knows that I'm not threat to the Primrose Contest but it sure is nice to play without pain. 

DLB

I just saw a nice 16 1/4 Whedbee. Another guy the OP might look into, he might make a decent 151/2.

[not telling]

OP, has anyone suggested that you should go to the VSA in 3 weeks from today to find your viola? You have a really good chance of finding it when you have so many different examples of small violas to try. Just an idea, since...you know... if you're potentially spending 20k you want the right one. Plus the VSA is pretty fun, purportedly. Good luck.

[Phia]

6 hours ago, kaman said:

Thinking, since the OP mentioned wrist pain as an obstacle to playing a larger viola...

In my experience there's two different ways that a larger instrument causes physical problems (other than just weight)

1) There's the length of the body + string length, in other words whether it's just difficult to reach all the way to first position (or half position).  The string length can vary, so it's two violas with the same body length could feel pretty different in that regards.  I'm not a maker so will defer to the actual luthiers on this forum to comment on this.

2) There's the reach back towards the player's head to try to play in high positions on the A string.  I think this would be more likely to cause me wrist problems and is also quite variable between models.  Actually of many violas I've tried one of the instruments that I thought was most likely to give me problems was a very small instrument (I can't remember if it was 15" or 15.25") because the upper bouts were made very wide to compensate for the small body length.

I'm just wondering if it might help you to figure out more specifically what you need if you are talking to shops or makers.

I did once try a nice-sounding 15.5" viola that was a Bill Scott workshop viola, and I think would be in the price range mentioned.  Compared to a 16" or larger instrument it wouldn't be a "big sound" but maybe a workshop instrument from a good maker could be an avenue to explore as well. 

 

 

My problems definitely lie with #1. Stretching double stops and fourth finger are what gives me the most issues. Yeah, it would be a good idea to mention that to shops alongside general size!

[Phia]

5 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

I'm not a small person in height or width :-) I played a 16 5/8" viola from high school through college and into decades of teaching.  I had a problem that I called "Cement Wrist".  My left wrist would get ridged and immobile.  I tried about anything and everything to get it to quit.  I wound up teaching most of the time with a violin and that actually worked out fine as a school teacher. Much later on I bought a very nice William Whedbee 16" viola at auction and all of a sudden I could play that instrument with no wrist problems.  I realize it's only 5/8" but It sure seemed to make a big difference.  I am willing to admit that it may all have been between my ears but it did seem to help a lot.  God knows that I'm not threat to the Primrose Contest but it sure is nice to play without pain. 

DLB

I don't have years upon years of experience and expertise, but to play without pain does seem like a pretty nice prospect lol. 

I also have one version of cement wrist in fourth finger stretches!

[Phia]

4 hours ago, not telling said:

OP, has anyone suggested that you should go to the VSA in 3 weeks from today to find your viola? You have a really good chance of finding it when you have so many different examples of small violas to try. Just an idea, since...you know... if you're potentially spending 20k you want the right one. Plus the VSA is pretty fun, purportedly. Good luck.

Hm.. that's something to consider. Thank you for letting me know. 

[Marty Kasprzyk]

On 11/1/2025 at 10:03 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I very much agree with your comments.

The "reach length" which is the distance from the nut to the end of the instrument might be the best measurement to compare instrument sizes.

The player's left arm is heavy so using a short instrument moves their arm closer to the player's body therefore the torque (reach length times weight) or moment arm (if you like puns) is less. Thus a short instrument reduces the stress on the shoulder muscles which reduces injuries.  A low viola weight also helps but since it is small compared the the player's arm weight, it isn't as important as the reach length.  

I make my upper right bout shape narrow and shallow to make it easier to reach high positions.  A large internal volume is achieved with a short body by having a very high rib height in other places.  The normal exterior space between the bottom plate and the shoulder is incorporated into the instrument body rather being wasted by using a shoulder rest.  The bottom plate is bent to give the same support as a shoulder rest. 

This small viola design strategy can also be applied to make small fractional size violins sound like regular size ones.

Young players shouldn't have to play horrible sounding instruments.

[MANFIO]

I made a 15.3 (39 cm) viola last year, a commission from a player from Belgium, with a 14 cm. neck and a 352 string length. I used high tention Evah Pirazzis on it. Here the photos a clip with the viola being played 

 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I've come across some very good sounding smaller violas in the last few decades (many used by pros).

Seems more contemporary makers are responding to the reduced size trend. Roberto Diaz plays a cut down Bros. Amati Viola (ex-Primrose, 39.8 cm/15 5/8") which a contemporary maker has adopted as one of the models she builds (I see these violas through the shop pretty regularly).

Grubaugh and Seifert produced a couple 15 1/2' violas based on a Busan, Marylin Wallin has produced some small violas, Chris Jacoby has been mentioned as has Will Whedbee and Tom Croen, Manfio posted photos of his recent small viola. etc.

20K is a little shy of the prices asked for many seasoned makers presently, but I do believe a contemporary instrument may offer a bit more bang for the buck than an older one in most cases.

ex-Primrose Amati:

 

[martin swan]

Not wishing to plug here (these days we can't sell anything to the US anyway) but there are many many great late 18th century English violas under 40cm, generally well within this price range.

Duke, Banks, Betts, Forster, Simpson, Carter etc etc

[Jeffrey Holmes]

9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Not wishing to plug here (these days we can't sell anything to the US anyway) but there are many many great late 18th century English violas under 40cm, generally well within this price range.

Duke, Banks, Betts, Forster, Simpson, Carter etc etc

Actually, one of my favorite older small violas I placed was a Forster....  I think a good one one would probably fetch more than $20K here... so maybe worth a flight overseas!   

[martin swan]

2 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

Actually, one of my favorite older small violas I placed was a Forster....  I think a good one one might fetch more than 20K here... so maybe worth a flight overseas!   

Yes, you're right - and a good Betts would be more too, but they made a lot of "workshop" instruments, or there are things you know are Forster but can't say quite which Forster ...

We sold a small "Royal" Forster for $30k more than 10 years ago, but it was almost unused...

[MANFIO]

What happens with violas that are not too big is that it is easier to get the sound focused, to get a quick response and clarity. 

I sold 15.5  viola to tall players, including Konrad Lepetit, of the Gewandhaus Leipzig, and he is a tall guy, now retired. He was about 60 years old when he got my viola, and mentioned playing Wagner operas, quite a tiring thing on a big viola, almost 6 hours of playing.  

[Elias Schwartzman]

The Weisshaar shop in Orange County CA had a 15.5" viola on consignment from a former LA Phil player. Rena Weisshaar made it a few decades back if I recall correctly. I had my eye on it for a while and played it anytime I came into the shop, great tone and sound though idk about "big." I never had the cash to get it though. 

I currently play a 17 incher that a fellow orchestra violinist donated to me since it needed work, and I'm a very average sized person. It took work to understand how to play it without incurring RSI, but it's very doable for me. I feel like volume is easier to find in a large viola, but great tone can be had from all sizes of viola. 

Good luck on your search!

 

 

[Ernee]

Iizuka had a very famous model with bitten-into shoulders.  Emmanuel Vardi played one.

Otherwise, Ed Maday has made some very nice small ones, with high ribs and unusual arching on the back.  Tons of volume, much less length.   My ex traded her awesome Erdesz for that, and got a few more years of playing with much less pain.

For myself, I'll be picking up a 16-ish" instrument this autumn.  No strong preference on size or sound, as I am normally a violinist.  But the maker has been on a real hot streak recently so I trust his judgement.

[Dwight Brown]

I can personally recommend Christopher Jacoby, William Whedbee, Tetsuo Matsuda (he has passed away but you might find his instruments for sale.  John Dilworth, Joseph Curtin Ultralight.  I actually own one or more of all of these so I can speak from some experience.  If you are near Austin, TX you are welcome to come by and play them.

DLB

[Marty Kasprzyk]

What strings are recommended for 15.5 in. violas?

My impression is tha most strings for small violas are merely shortened versions of the longer ones used for bigger violas.

Since their mass per unit length is the same, it means that short strings must have a lower tension than longer ones to produce the same frequency.  Since a lower tension produces less sound output it means that small violas are not as loud as larger ones.

[Dorisch]

I am not really a violist, so take it with a grain of salt, but I once came across a rather well priced Karel Vavra (I think junior) where the lower bout was viola sized and the upper bout violin sized and to me it sounded surprisingly well for it’s playability.

 

[KeiranC]

I have a friend who plays a small (somewhere around 15.5 I think) Giulio Degani, and it is stunning.  Doesn’t lack for volume or quality of sound, though of course much of that comes from the fantastic player 

[Dwight Brown]

2 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

What strings are recommended for 15.5 in. violas?

My impression is tha most strings for small violas are merely shortened versions of the longer ones used for bigger violas.

Since their mass per unit length is the same, it means that short strings must have a lower tension than longer ones to produce the same frequency.  Since a lower tension produces less sound output it means that small violas are not as loud as larger ones.

I think I would tend toward Evah Perazzi or Evan Perazzi Gold.  I am a Pirastro person but Dominants or another of the Thomastik offerings might be good.  I don't think you would want anything rather mellow but as always YMMV.

DLB

[deans]

2 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

What strings are recommended for 15.5 in. violas?

My impression is tha most strings for small violas are merely shortened versions of the longer ones used for bigger violas.

Since their mass per unit length is the same, it means that short strings must have a lower tension than longer ones to produce the same frequency.  Since a lower tension produces less sound output it means that small violas are not as loud as larger ones.

Yes, its all about getting the right tension. I believe short scale Dominants are thicker. Others, as you mentioned are not (just shorter). Of course its the string length that counts, not the viola back length. Sometimes a 15.5" viola has a generous string length. And if just a bit short, say 365-370, you can get by with regular thick guage strings of whatever type you like.