Violin Ascribed to Nicolò Gagliano Disproven By Dendro

[GeorgeH]

At Tarisio NY, there is a violin with two old certificates testifying as having been made by Nicolò Gagliano but a recent dendro showed the wood was early 20th century.

Now it is ascribed to “Possibly By The Voller Brothers.” I would think if it actually were by The Voller Brothers that somebody would be able to certify that as their work has been well studied.

https://tarisio.com/auctions/auction/lot/?csid=2200485888&cpid=2597994496

 

[Blank face]

As I understand it, a lot of half-modern copies of classical Italians, which were confused with or once sold as the original are described as „possibly Vollers“. This doesn’t mean more than just possibly, or possibly by someone else.

I would be more interested from which wood the scroll was made and the reason why there are additions at the chamfers of the last windings?

[Violadamore]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

As I understand it, a lot of half-modern copies of classical Italians, which were confused with or once sold as the original are described as „possibly Vollers“. This doesn’t mean more than just possibly, or possibly by someone else.

Scarampella, Gadda, some guy in Budapest.......the possibilities are vast.  What's going to sell this one, IMHO, is the Harriet Wilson connection.  

[deans]

Nice looking. And probably a good player. With an estimate of a typical contemporary instrument. I'll bet somebody will buy it to play.

[Jeny Mahon]

13 hours ago, Blank face said:

As I understand it, a lot of half-modern copies of classical Italians, which were confused with or once sold as the original are described as „possibly Vollers“. This doesn’t mean more than just possibly, or possibly by someone else.

I would be more interested from which wood the scroll was made and the reason why there are additions at the chamfers of the last windings?

That would be a "Double Van Gogh" 

[Blank face]

13 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Scarampella, Gadda

These are not very possible I’d say.

[Violadamore]

5 hours ago, Blank face said:

These are not very possible I’d say.

Take another look, and consider the dates.  More likely than the Vollers, IMHO.  The problem is, there really ain't no telling who committed it.  The maker might even have been an American.    

[Blank face]

3 hours ago, Violadamore said:

The maker might even have been an American

That might be possible in this case, and a reason why I wondered about the scroll wood. No remote resemblance to any Scarampella or Gadda in my eyes.

[Blank face]

11 hours ago, Jeny Mahon said:

That would be a "Double Van Gogh" 

If the ears were cut off, yes. But they look more like „nip/tuck“.

[Jeny Mahon]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

If the ears were cut off, yes. But they look more like „nip/tuck“.

I can't really tell what's going on there!  It isn't mentioned in the condition report:

 

Back: minor replaced chip at treble C-bout edge.
Ribs: upper treble bout doubled, cracks at upper and lower bouts and corners, inserts at treble corners.
Top: soundpost cracks with patch, bassbar crack, cracks at lower bouts, saddle, wings, upper corners, upper bass eye, and adjacent to neck, some edge cracks and replacements.
Head: cracks at A-peg (bass side) and back of head.
Varnish: light wear, some retouch.

[deans]

Lotta cracks on top for an instrument not that old. Would have been new when she had it. Wonder if someone sat on it.

[GeorgeH]

18 minutes ago, deans said:

Lotta cracks on top for an instrument not that old. Would have been new when she had it. Wonder if someone sat on it.

I think that was part of counterfeiting.

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

I think that was part of counterfeiting.

Otherwise it would not be very convincing. So the scroll repairs, including the multi-bushings might be part of that, too.

We should pin that for the next argument „it must be old because it has this and that repair.“

[deans]

You guys have good points. Then again brand new violins get squashed from time to time. I suppose next time its open they could do dendro on the spp if its big enough.

[Shelbow]

I'm not doubting the results, but I'd be curious to see if Peter would have the same dendro results.

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

I'm not doubting the results, but I'd be curious to see if Peter would have the same dendro results.

If it were my violin, I’d get a second opinion, too. However, there may be other clues that it is not a Gagliano.

My guess is that closer examination showed that this is not a Gagliano. The book The Voller Brothers has a chapter dedicated to “Identifying Voller Instruments” which is illuminating. For example, in regards to heads:

“The head has been pointed out as a frequent weakness of Voller work. They generally seem to lack the vigour of the rest of the instrument and often seem completely unmatched. Original heads may have a noticeably deep scribe line around the centre of the scroll in the manner of the Turin makers. In fact, many of the Voller heads are recovered from old instruments and given some cursory retouching to blend the varnish towards that of the body. These old heads frequently have major repairs in the form of cheeks, and bushings, which were presumably already in place when the Vollers used them.
Whether this action was taken to give the instruments some feeling of genuine age, as in their preference for well-matured wood, or merely from impatience with the process of scroll carving, is impossible to say. Given William's work on the bronze statuettes, he was certainly capable of fine carving.”

One wonders, as @Blank face mentioned, if the eye repairs on this volute offer a clue to the origin.

An appendix on the dendochronology of some known Voller Brother violins showed that they frequently, but not always, used older wood.

[Ratcliffiddles]

6 hours ago, Shelbow said:

I'm not doubting the results, but I'd be curious to see if Peter would have the same dendro results.

Yes, and the wood is very close to one side of another suspected Voller

[Blank face]

4 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

One wonders, as @Blank face mentioned, if the eye repairs on this volute offer a clue to the origin

One reason I would speculate for the additions at both sides is alteration of the scroll inner winding and the shape or size of the eye, if this was formerly „too German“ or „too French“. The added wood appears to be ordinary maple, in opposite to the original wood, which seems to be something else, maybe chestnut or plane.

@Ratcliffiddles: What could be the making date, based on the youngest ring? Around 1925-30 or even later? It seems to be a bit of a stretch to call it early 20th with such a date.

The story of the all female band reminds me of the movie „Some like it hot“, it might well be inspired by that group.

[Violadamore]

3 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

Yes, and the wood is very close to one side of another suspected Voller

Thanks.  This helps explain and support the "Possibly by the Voller Brothers" attribution, as does the earlier Voller book quote by @GeorgeH.  Wonderful what can be learned here.  

[shaq]

14 hours ago, Shelbow said:

I'm not doubting the results, but I'd be curious to see if Peter would have the same dendro results.

I agree with you.

[Shelbow]

13 hours ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

Yes, and the wood is very close to one side of another suspected Voller

Thanks Peter, very interesting.

Just trying to understand the wood origins of some of these instruments. Are you seeing wood being used from areas in what would now be Czechia or is it mainly French/German origin?

 

[Ratcliffiddles]

On 10/28/2025 at 12:27 PM, Shelbow said:

Thanks Peter, very interesting.

Just trying to understand the wood origins of some of these instruments. Are you seeing wood being used from areas in what would now be Czechia or is it mainly French/German origin?

 

Yes, Czechia/Lower Saxony borders/Ore Mountains. I haven't seen French wood on Vollers yet, Swedish yes, and other fine grained stuff that I cannot date but suspect may be reclaimed Baltic pine widely used in buildings in London. I have 5, possibly 6 Vollers made from what appears to be a single billet (or plank).