aligning fingerboard

[Mat Roop]

To follow up on recent topics...

In fitting a new fingerboard, it is easy to set the bridge position and line up the fb with the bridge. However, that does not guarantee that the end pin is also in line. So, in my estimation, lining up the fingerboard with the end pin is essential and then fitting the bridge lined up in between.

Wihat is the best way to verify that the fingerboard or neck  is lined up ( or not) with the end pin? I have a crude method that sort of works, but I'd love to hear what others do.

Cheers, Mat

[Evan Smith]

  Here is the jig that I use. My kids call it the whale, go figure.

It goes beside the neck after the fingerboard scoop on the side has been finished, so it touches at the nut end and the large end of the fingerboard and projects to the endpin. If the glue joint is truly the center line, then I use that to project my measurement to. I use it on one side then the other.

I have a little green line at about 37 which is the center of the projected board to the endpin. Using this you can also see where the upper F holes lie in relationship to the board and also you can make marks on the top where the bridge will be located, so if the base bar is installed correctly, then everything will lineup perfectly at this point. 

The gizmo under the fingerboard is what I use to set the projection of the neck when I’m gluing the neck on. The further you slide it back under the fingerboard the more it raises the projection, then I draw a line on either side, and that gives me a visual to glue the neck perfectly straight without having to muck around, trying to measure a bunch of stuff, I really don’t like chaos and just dinking around with things, so I make jigs so that mistakes are nigh near impossible.

 

So obviously, I use this when installing fingerboards also to get an idea of the lay of the land.

 

[FiddleDoug]

Since the end pin and pegs have the same taper, I have taken an old peg, drilled a small hole near the head, and put in a wire, about 2 inches long. With this in the end pin hole and the wire placed in a vertical position, you have a reference. You can then put a chalk line on the neck or fingerboard (or on a piece of tape on the neck or FB). Sighting down the neck/FB, you can easily see the alignment (or not). 

[The Violin Beautiful]

I think using the endbutton as an alignment tool could be useful if you can be certain that the hole is properly centered on the instrument, but the reality is that endbuttons end up all over the place. Sometimes the bottom block is simply glued off center and the hole is centered on the block, sometimes the joint of the ribs is used as reference, which may or may not be in line with the centerline of the instrument.

Having seen so many instruments with buttons severely misaligned, I’m inclined to think that many (even most?) makers have historically paid little attention to endbutton position in relation to the rest of the instrument. It seems like a more modern approach toward setup. If that the case, any endeavors to line things up will need to account for this. To get a more exact sense of proper alignment, one will need to ascertain the center of the instrument using the spacing between the bouts; on old violins we have to use the purfling as reference because the edges are likely to be worn down enough that they no longer represent the original. Once a center has been established, alignment of the neck and button can be evaluated. If the intention is to put everything into a straight line, I would expect that it may be necessary to realign things at BOTH ends in very many cases.

I do like to see setups that are balanced and violins that display a certain amount of symmetry that pleases the eye (and hopefully the ear), but since old instruments are so quirky, I worry that trying to make violins fit into the design methodology of contemporary makers will require significant changes to the structure of the older instruments. If the structural issues are great enough, we have to do something, but I consider that a decision to be made only after either trying the alternatives or very carefully weighing options first before cutting into original material.

I’ve heard the same idea applied to the saddle: it’s supposed to be centered, so use it for alignment when setting a neck. The problem there is the same as with the endbutton: it’s not necessarily on the centerline. I’ve seen a decent number of violins that had a properly centered endbutton but a saddle far enough out of line that the tailgut wouldn’t sit on the saddle properly without being forced drastically out of line. The opposite is not too uncommon either: a saddle properly centered but a button so far out of line that it makes it almost impossible to keep the tailgut from sliding off the peak of the saddle. 

 

 

 

[Shunyata]

Rubber band looped over the end button, passing over bridge at G and E points, and looping (over and) around neck heel.  

Holds bridge is a decent location and band touches fingerboard so you can see direct alignment.

[ernym]

1 hour ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

I think using the endbutton as an alignment tool could be useful if you can be certain that the hole is properly centered on the instrument, but the reality is that endbuttons end up all over the place. Sometimes the bottom block is simply glued off center and the hole is centered on the block, sometimes the joint of the ribs is used as reference, which may or may not be in line with the centerline of the instrument.

Having seen so many instruments with buttons severely misaligned, I’m inclined to think that many (even most?) makers have historically paid little attention to endbutton position in relation to the rest of the instrument. It seems like a more modern approach toward setup. If that the case, any endeavors to line things up will need to account for this. To get a more exact sense of proper alignment, one will need to ascertain the center of the instrument using the spacing between the bouts; on old violins we have to use the purfling as reference because the edges are likely to be worn down enough that they no longer represent the original. Once a center has been established, alignment of the neck and button can be evaluated. If the intention is to put everything into a straight line, I would expect that it may be necessary to realign things at BOTH ends in very many cases.

I do like to see setups that are balanced and violins that display a certain amount of symmetry that pleases the eye (and hopefully the ear), but since old instruments are so quirky, I worry that trying to make violins fit into the design methodology of contemporary makers will require significant changes to the structure of the older instruments. If the structural issues are great enough, we have to do something, but I consider that a decision to be made only after either trying the alternatives or very carefully weighing options first before cutting into original material.

I’ve heard the same idea applied to the saddle: it’s supposed to be centered, so use it for alignment when setting a neck. The problem there is the same as with the endbutton: it’s not necessarily on the centerline. I’ve seen a decent number of violins that had a properly centered endbutton but a saddle far enough out of line that the tailgut wouldn’t sit on the saddle properly without being forced drastically out of line. The opposite is not too uncommon either: a saddle properly centered but a button so far out of line that it makes it almost impossible to keep the tailgut from sliding off the peak of the saddle. 

Finding the center on older instruments can be challenging if the endpin is not the true center of the instrument. I explained how to do this when making a new instrument in my bench thread. 

More info here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/361705-ernyms-bench/page/3/

"Here's a little tip to make sure the end pin hole is drilled straight and perfectly on the centerline.

Before glueing the bottom rib transfer centerline to outside of bottom block, remove block and drill on drill press. Then glue block back onto form lining up the centerline. Now glue rib on and when garland is removed from form carefully drill though inside hole in block and through rib." 

 

 

[nathan slobodkin]

If you are looking to align the fingerboard (or saddle, nut or end pin) with the center of the belly it can easily be done with a machinist's height gauge on a surface plate. I do that on new instruments. On older instruments I guess there might be  a question of whether or not you think that is important. I feel it is and given the option adjust everything to that center but, as I said in the currently running thread about sound post position on instruments with crooked necks, in repair work odd compromises have to be made.

I am still very interested to hear from experienced restorers about the whole question of compromise and whether some instruments do sound better with unconventional set ups or measurements and how to decide if the instrument wouldn't be better off with being brought back more toward "normal". I suppose the issue of originality must come into that as well if there is a way to deduce the original makers intentions.

[Brad Dorsey]

24 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

…if there is a way to deduce the original makers intentions.

When dealing with an asymmetrical instrument, perhaps it can be deduced that the original maker did not intend to make a symmetrical one.

[nathan slobodkin]

5 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

When dealing with an asymmetrical instrument, perhaps it can be deduced that the original maker did not intend to make a symmetrical one.

I doubt that.

While makers prior to the 20th century certainly had a different view of surface finish than those born after the invention of Formica, I suspect that molds and templates were probably intended to be symmetrical. Looseness of construction resulted in asymmetry which was accepted rather than intended.
My questions about symmetry are aimed more at the acoustic results. If a centerline was established at the start of construction and FF hole placement, bass bar, neck etc were done in relation to that center line a bulge here or there on the outline doesn’t matter but if the center line was established from the outline then that is a different system and bridge, bar and post position should follow suit.

We could have a neck set to align with the center of the eyes of the FFs while radically asymmetrical to the center line of the instrument body versus one set in line with the body when the FFs would then be seriously offset. Can we deduce the original intent of the maker and follow that? Decide which system we like and use that one? Or perhaps juggle the whole thing to minimize the eccentricities and have an instrument where nothing is really aligned but no particular part is so wonky as to be obvious?

Is there any way to really know how the sound is being affected? Or does the final acoustic result come down to trial and error with post and bridge adjustment and hoping that something better is not one tap of the setter away from where you stopped?

[Dr. Mark]

On 8/5/2025 at 10:00 AM, ernym said:

"Here's a little tip to make sure the end pin hole is drilled straight and perfectly on the centerline.

Before glueing the bottom rib transfer centerline to outside of bottom block, remove block and drill on drill press. Then glue block back onto form lining up the centerline. Now glue rib on and when garland is removed from form carefully drill though inside hole in block and through rib."

I extend the centerline to the block to center the rib join, but I don't drill (with a hand drill) and ream the end pin hole until I've glued the ribs.

54 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

Or does the final acoustic result come down to trial and error with post and bridge adjustment and hoping that something better is not one tap of the setter away from where you stopped?

Lol the stuff of nightmares.

[David Burgess]

Highly respected people in our trade don't all agree on how to determine a "true" centerline on a violin. This might somewhat suggest that perfect alignment (whatever that is) isn't terribly important.

In my own experience, there are so many other things which are somewhat interchangeable with the sound and playing properties of one string path or another (even sound post position or string afterlenght), that a straight string path (whatever that is) isn't a high priority of mine any more.

Even if the string path is visually straight via one method or another, the steel E strings have significantly higher tension than each of the other three strings, so there will be a force wanting to slide the bridge toward the bass side of the violin. So for those who are super-into alignment stuff, should the side-angle stuff be lined up to be visually equal, or force-equal?