Buzzing sound of the crack below the F-hole—what could it be on my Homolka violin?

[Haoran Wang]

Hello all,

I’m hoping to get expert input on a strange buzzing issue with my violin. Some background:

Summer-specific issue: It only happens in the summer months or when moving from outdoors into an air-conditioned room—even though I maintain the environment at 40–60% RH year-round (I even bought a humidity-controlled cabinet).

Buzz occurs only when heavily bowing the open G string, never on lighter playing or other strings.And when I play the open G string, I press my finger on the crack and the buzzing sound disappears.

I had a professional repair last week: there was a small crack just below the left f‑hole, which the luthier repaired from the inside and reinforced with an cleat. I’ve attached photos of both the crack and the cleat.

At the same time, I was thinking, if I use Krentz's wolf sound device to stick it on the crack, can this problem be improved?

I think you have a lot of experience in solving these problems. The photos of the repairs are posted below. Please help me find a solution. Thank you all！

[Haoran Wang]

I should add that the crack was there decades ago, but the buzzing problem only reappeared recently, so I recently had it repaired by a luthier.

[jacobsaunders]

What makes you think that the violin is a Homolka?

[GeorgeH]

Having a bridge protector under the G-string is very unusual. The other strings also look like they are cutting too deep. The problem could be your bridge.

[baroquecello]

It could be that the buzz is caused by something else in the vicinity of the crack,  so that the crack seemed to be the problem,  but it isn't really. Like a loose lining, or a loose purfling strip, or even an open seam. Finding the cause of buzzes can be hard enough in person. Online it is just a guess.

[deans]

What is the opinion of the person who repaired it last week? Does he/she know its still buzzing?

[Blank face]

4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

What makes you think that the violin is a Homolka?

My first thought was which of the two or three violins the OP showed here before as „Homolka“ (and at least the last one was something different) she actually is referring to.

Regarding the repairs visible at the opened belly they are surely not what I would call actual standard, the irregular cut cleats being from maple or a similar hardwood and probably not well fitted to the belly wood. So there’s a good chance that buzzing and more problems are caused by this circumstance and my advice would be to look for a better qualified repair person as a first step.

The mentioned G string protector could also be an evidence that the bridge or other parts of the setup aren’t as they should be. All these issues can lead to buzzing and other problems, but this can hardly be checked completely from this side of the screen.

[violinsRus]

I agree with BF, and I would certainly check clearance of the G string at the nut and scoop of the fingerboard. I'm not convinced the buzzing is from that f-hole wing. 

[Haoran Wang]

13 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Having a bridge protector under the G-string is very unusual. The other strings also look like they are cutting too deep. The problem could be your bridge.

 

9 hours ago, Blank face said:

My first thought was which of the two or three violins the OP showed here before as „Homolka“ (and at least the last one was something different) she actually is referring to.

Regarding the repairs visible at the opened belly they are surely not what I would call actual standard, the irregular cut cleats being from maple or a similar hardwood and probably not well fitted to the belly wood. So there’s a good chance that buzzing and more problems are caused by this circumstance and my advice would be to look for a better qualified repair person as a first step.

The mentioned G string protector could also be an evidence that the bridge or other parts of the setup aren’t as they should be. All these issues can lead to buzzing and other problems, but this can hardly be checked completely from this side of the screen.

 

6 hours ago, violinsRus said:

I agree with BF, and I would certainly check clearance of the G string at the nut and scoop of the fingerboard. I'm not convinced the buzzing is from that f-hole wing. 

Thank you for your response. I'd like to provide some additional details. My violin had a similar issue last summer, and I’ve attached photos of the repair that was done at that time. Because that repair did not fully resolve the problem, the top plate was reopened this year for further work, and I brought the instrument to a more experienced local luthier.

Regarding your suggestion about the bridge: the buzzing actually started before the bridge was replaced. Since then, I’ve tried three different bridges, but none of them have made any difference. Therefore, I’m confident that the buzzing noise is not related to the bridge.

[HoGo]

It's hard to trace buzz like that. It can be anywhere and even the sound may appear to come from very different part of violin than the location of spot that causes it.

You can have tiny bit of loose seam between ribs and plate or linings or even under fingerboard and it may appear like buzz comes from other end of instrument. It can be tailgut or finetuner... Touching a spot on violin may just mute a body resonance at that single frequency but not exactly that spot is the cause of the buzz. Qualified luthier should be able to find it.

[The Violin Beautiful]

There may be any number of causes for the problem, and as already pointed out, no one can diagnose through a screen. The picture of the first repair is a world apart from that of the more recent one. I would be very concerned with the discrepancy in workmanship, as the more recent repair is a real mess. It looks like the wood was sanded roughly and the cleats are a disaster. From the pictures it seems like both repairmen have been focusing on that crack as a source of tonal issues, but it seems unlikely to me.

I’ve had a couple violins in with mysterious buzzes lately. One turned out to be caused by a loose neck block, one was a very small unglued spot on one side of a bassbar. I had a cello customer years ago who went five or six shops trying to get rid of a buzz. That one turned out to be caused by a cracked peg bushing.

[nathan slobodkin]

I woukd look for loose purfling. This can be hard to find but a thin film of water rubbed over the purfling will bubble when the loose area is flexed or pressed. Very common to be found in the area of the C when there has bween a crack in the outer wing of the FF. Glad to see you have taken the instrument to a more experienced luthier the top removal in the  first photos looked pretty grim.

[Don Noon]

It seems a bit odd to me that the open G would cause a buzz, but not at other notes.  The open G doesn't excite body structural modes as much as some of the higher notes, so I would expect a body-related buzz to show up there as well.

Following this logic, a string-related cause might be more likely... a poor fit at the nut, or fingerboard issue.  A simple test would be to de-tune the G slightly, and play the G note when fingered.  Is the buzz still there?

[Brad Dorsey]

4 hours ago, HoGo said:

It's hard to trace [a] buzz like that. It can be anywhere...

 

2 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

There may be any number of causes for the problem...

 

22 hours ago, Haoran Wang said:

...when...I press my finger on the crack...the buzzing sound disappears...

 

Wouldn't the fact that pressing a finger on the crack makes the buzz disappear indicate that the cause of the buzz is in the vicinity of the crack?  Perhaps a loose cleat?

If it weren't for this fact, I would look at the nut for the cause of a buzz that only sounds on an open string.

[Don Noon]

There does seem to be bits of evidence and logic that are in conflict.  As with everything else about violins.

[Mark Norfleet]

45 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Wouldn't the fact that pressing a finger on the crack makes the buzz disappear indicate that the cause of the buzz is in the vicinity of the crack?

It might be, but also could be anywhere else on the instrument.  If you’re damping the top, you’re damping the top…, and everything attached to it.

[Haoran Wang]

4 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

It might be, but also could be anywhere else on the instrument.  If you’re damping the top, you’re damping the top…, and everything attached to it.

You are right. Because I tried and when I pressed other places on this violin, the buzzing sound may also stop.

[Haoran Wang]

5 hours ago, HoGo said:

It's hard to trace buzz like that. It can be anywhere and even the sound may appear to come from very different part of violin than the location of spot that causes it.

You can have tiny bit of loose seam between ribs and plate or linings or even under fingerboard and it may appear like buzz comes from other end of instrument. It can be tailgut or finetuner... Touching a spot on violin may just mute a body resonance at that single frequency but not exactly that spot is the cause of the buzz. Qualified luthier should be able to find it.

 

3 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

There may be any number of causes for the problem, and as already pointed out, no one can diagnose through a screen. The picture of the first repair is a world apart from that of the more recent one. I would be very concerned with the discrepancy in workmanship, as the more recent repair is a real mess. It looks like the wood was sanded roughly and the cleats are a disaster. From the pictures it seems like both repairmen have been focusing on that crack as a source of tonal issues, but it seems unlikely to me.

I’ve had a couple violins in with mysterious buzzes lately. One turned out to be caused by a loose neck block, one was a very small unglued spot on one side of a bassbar. I had a cello customer years ago who went five or six shops trying to get rid of a buzz. That one turned out to be caused by a cracked peg bushing.

 

2 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

I woukd look for loose purfling. This can be hard to find but a thin film of water rubbed over the purfling will bubble when the loose area is flexed or pressed. Very common to be found in the area of the C when there has bween a crack in the outer wing of the FF. Glad to see you have taken the instrument to a more experienced luthier the top removal in the  first photos looked pretty grim.

 

1 hour ago, Don Noon said:

It seems a bit odd to me that the open G would cause a buzz, but not at other notes.  The open G doesn't excite body structural modes as much as some of the higher notes, so I would expect a body-related buzz to show up there as well.

Following this logic, a string-related cause might be more likely... a poor fit at the nut, or fingerboard issue.  A simple test would be to de-tune the G slightly, and play the G note when fingered.  Is the buzz still there?

I thought about the repair process of this violin. I asked the luthier to raise the fingerboard of this violin with maple in May last year, and then the buzzing sound started in June. Could it be related to the change in the tension of the strings on the bridge? Maybe it really has nothing to do with the crack itself.

[Don Noon]

Another simple test would be to put a piece of toothpick or something similar under the G string next to the nut. It both raises the string off the fingerboard and eliminates the slot at the nut as being the source of the buzz.

[Guido]

Another consideration is if you need to do anything at all.

Do you have a buzz in anything you play? Or anyone could ever play?

Playing the open G string as hard as possible isn’t called for in any repertoire I’m aware of.

Else, I’d start at the string grooves both in the nut and the bridge, then everything else. And don’t forget to check for a grain of sand in the adjuster barrel of the chin rest :-)

[Haoran Wang]

22 minutes ago, Guido said:

Another consideration is if you need to do anything at all.

Do you have a buzz in anything you play? Or anyone could ever play?

Playing the open G string as hard as possible isn’t called for in any repertoire I’m aware of.

Else, I’d start at the string grooves both in the nut and the bridge, then everything else. And don’t forget to check for a grain of sand in the adjuster barrel of the chin rest :-)

Hi Guido
You are right, there is no violin piece that has an open G string played for a long time. However, there are often double or triple chords with an open G string, and the buzzing of the G string is quite obvious. And unfortunately, sometimes this buzzing also occurs when playing open A and D strings. I think this buzzing comes from the harmonic part. Looking forward to your opinion.

[Don Noon]

4 hours ago, Haoran Wang said:

 sometimes this buzzing also occurs when playing open A and D strings. 

OK, new information that would seem to rule out the nut and bridge grooves as the potential issue, and point more strongly to fingerboard clearance and shape.  If you can't make the buzz by super-aggressive playing of a fingered note, that would be additional evidence that it's probably not coming from the body.

[Haoran Wang]

2 hours ago, Don Noon said:

OK, new information that would seem to rule out the nut and bridge grooves as the potential issue, and point more strongly to fingerboard clearance and shape.  If you can't make the buzz by super-aggressive playing of a fingered note, that would be additional evidence that it's probably not coming from the body.

To be honest, your guess is the same as mine. I now seriously suspect that the height of the fingerboard affects the vibration of the violin itself. Before the fingerboard was raised last year, the distance from the end of the fingerboard to the body was 19mm, and after the raising, it became 20mm. Do you think it is possible to ask the luthier to adjust the fingerboard height back to 19mm? Thank you very much for your reply

[The Violin Beautiful]

Buzzes are not usually caused by changes in frequency but rather by a mechanical issue like an open seam, open crack, or a string vibrating in a wide enough arc to come into contact with the fingerboard during bowing. If the projection was low, raising it would not cause a buzz unless something else happened that needs to be addressed. 

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

Buzzes are not usually caused by changes in frequency but rather by a mechanical issue like an open seam, open crack, or a string vibrating in a wide enough arc to come into contact with the fingerboard during bowing. If the projection was low, raising it would not cause a buzz unless something else happened that needs to be addressed. 

If the projection was raised but the bridge height remained the same ….