Advice on selling 1925 EH Roth Model No. 72 / XI-R del Gesu

[yaumnik]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking to sell my 2nd violin. I've retired now and just don't have enough time and love to give to this mint condition instrument, made by EH Roth himself in 1925 during his "Golden Era" period.  It is a del Gesu model XI-R (or 11-R) made for the European market.

This violin has strong projection. Its sound is balanced and clean, with a deep lower register and bright higher register. The instrument is quite responsive and easy to play.

Any advice on what venue would be the best to sell it? I could always place it into a commission sale with a Philadelphia or New York shop, but ideally would love to place it directly into the hands of a violinist who would appreciate this excellent violin.

Instrument authenticity has been confirmed by Wilhelm Roth.

The violin currently resides in the Philadelphia, PA area.

Thank you in advance for any advice or lead, 

Gary

[Spelman]

No for sales on this board

[FiddleDoug]

While I'm not an expert on the Roths, I do know that a friend of mine bought a similar vintage Roth for something in the neighborhood of $10K. A that price, you need to have the right audience of buyers. Not something that you'll find on ebay, or the FB Marketplace. I'd say deal with a good shop.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

Isn't this the 1925 Roth being offered on ebay for an outrageous price, who says its an 11R??

[yaumnik]

7 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Isn't this the 1925 Roth being offered on ebay for an outrageous price, who says its an 11R??

I have not listed this instrument for sale anywhere, especially not on eBay!

[Strad O Various Jr.]

It doesn't have the model number, what evidence do you have that its an 11R??

[deans]

Fred Oster would be my first choice. He actually has an example of this model on his web page now. Roths tend to be popular, have to think he would consign it. 

[deans]

Btw, I would get rid of that tailpiece. Whenever I see one it suggests that the instrument has a tonal problem that needed to be "fixed"

[Shelbow]

30 minutes ago, deans said:

Btw, I would get rid of that tailpiece. Whenever I see one it suggests that the instrument has a tonal problem that needed to be "fixed"

Oh I quite like those tailpieces.

[yaumnik]

2 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

It doesn't have the model number, what evidence do you have that its an 11R??

Wilhelm Roth confirmed it based on their records. Also, I did take it to Fred Oster a few years back. My violin was the first he ever came across that was an 11R European. He actually ended up tapping into his "network of friends in the business" to confirm.

[yaumnik]

2 hours ago, deans said:

Fred Oster would be my first choice. He actually has an example of this model on his web page now. Roths tend to be popular, have to think he would consign it. 

I think I probably will go visit Fred. 

[yaumnik]

1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

Oh I quite like those tailpieces.

I like the way this violin sounds with this tailpiece. The lower strings are giving more overtones, sound a lot like gut strings, nice and warm.

[GeorgeH]

 

2 hours ago, yaumnik said:

Wilhelm Roth confirmed it based on their records.

I don’t know how Wilhelm Roth could identify the model without serial numbers.

If it is what he says, an investment in a certificate with pictures from the Roth Company would likely pay for itself in the ultimate selling price particularly since it does not have serial numbers branded in the back.

 

[yaumnik]

34 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

 

I don’t know how Wilhelm Roth could identify the model without serial numbers.

If it is what he says, an investment in a certificate with pictures from the Roth Company would likely pay for itself in the ultimate selling price particularly since it does not have serial numbers branded in the back.

 

Makes sense!

 

[The Violin Beautiful]

I would talk to Oster about it and see if he’d be interested in taking it on consignment. I wouldn’t personally put any stock into the Roth opinion by email—too many dubious violins seem to be rubber stamped as genuine without proper review.

Because Roths are a popular brand, you might have luck putting it up for auction. If it can be reliably confirmed as an XI-R,  that would make it especially attractive to collectors, as those show up less often than the lower models. Just as it would be the case if you put it in a shop, there’s no guarantee of a sale, but it would be seen by a wide pool of buyers with a serious interest in similar violins. 

[Sammyo]

I have been trying to learn and pay attention to Roth violins from this period and I am interested in the curl on the back.  In my (admittedly limited) experience, Roth often used a narrower curl than this on top instruments. Also, according to Tarisio, "As the firm carefully explained in its promotional literature, every authentic Roth instrument bears a serial number and the brand "Ernst Heinrich Roth" to the inside back, in addition to a standardized label indicating the year of production and identifying the maker, and often the model, being reproduced."  Is there a serial number on this instrument? 

[yaumnik]

3 hours ago, Sammyo said:

I have been trying to learn and pay attention to Roth violins from this period and I am interested in the curl on the back.  In my (admittedly limited) experience, Roth often used a narrower curl than this on top instruments. Also, according to Tarisio, "As the firm carefully explained in its promotional literature, every authentic Roth instrument bears a serial number and the brand "Ernst Heinrich Roth" to the inside back, in addition to a standardized label indicating the year of production and identifying the maker, and often the model, being reproduced."  Is there a serial number on this instrument? 

There's no serial number on this violin. Early on EHR was not numbering his instruments as I understand. Plus, this particular violin has been made for the European market.

[deans]

1 hour ago, yaumnik said:

There's no serial number on this violin. Early on EHR was not numbering his instruments as I understand. Plus, this particular violin has been made for the European market.

I dont doubt this. But I'll bet a lot of American Roth fans want to see that number, enough that it affects price. 

[fragslap]

My understanding was that all "XI-R" instruments from that time period bore Roth's own signature across the label. Also, how would they tell from that label what model it was? How would they keep a record of it if there was no serial number?  

[KSelbach]

My XI-R (see the thread)  has no number inside. Wilhelm Roth confirmed, that his grandfather built this instrument. If somebody came up with a violin before 1924 and it would have one, it would be fake. Mr. Roth could not explain, why the label of this violin is not signed and why it says „Copy Gagliano“. I don’t care, mainly because this violin has the best sound I ever had. I love it! If I had too much money, I would buy it instantly from the OP.

[deans]

What do you do, go with the Rothologists that study labels, stamps, and signatures? Or go with the firm that actually produced it? Both have flaws. Its really going to depend on the judgement and experience of the shop that sells it for you. Or if you put it at auction it will be up to the bidders to decide.

[yaumnik]

5 hours ago, KSelbach said:

My XI-R (see the thread)  has no number inside. Wilhelm Roth confirmed, that his grandfather built this instrument. If somebody came up with a violin before 1924 and it would have one, it would be fake. Mr. Roth could not explain, why the label of this violin is not signed and why it says „Copy Gagliano“. I don’t care, mainly because this violin has the best sound I ever had. I love it! If I had too much money, I would buy it instantly from the OP.

Thank you for supporting my violin's origins with your post (and the violin). And yes, if someone wants a real nice violin, I'm here. Haven't made my way to the shops, Oster et al just yet. :-)