Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 7 Report Posted June 7 I want to learn craft violins and even enter into contests with them. I have found the book called, 'The making of the violin.' Free online resource, it has the Messiah pattern. I wanted to use that manual and learn the art. Do you think I should get cheap tone wood to start out with, or should I go ahead and buy the better wood?
duane88 Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Can you sharpen? Can you make things flat and square using a block plane? If you don't have competency in basic woodworking and hand tool skills, that is where to start.
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 @duane88 yes I do have wood working skills. Block Planes, chisels, gouge, I have a set of diamond plates that I use often to sharpen things. I can work with a knife making small simple shapes. Something I know nothing about is varnish, or even paint. I normally don't use power tools, and only have minimum of power tools. I have you heard or seen the electric gouge?
MANFIO Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 The learning curve is slow, mainly if you are self-taught. The book "Art of Violin Making" by Courtnall and Johnson is the best one. Some things take a lot of time, like training your eyes to see details. Lutherie seems to be a relaxing thing, but on a high level it is quite a neurotic thing, I think. It is hard to please the top players, they are very demanding. The competition is tough in this field too. Good luck!
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 Do you think taking an old German trade violin and replacing the belly would work? And do you think it could be used for competition? My idea is get one of those violins, and carve my own belly for it. Saving the back, ribs, neck. Revarnish it maybe. It would cut time and cost if it worked? Some of those trade violins have not too bad looking figure. But the varnish looks ugly, and it has wide grained top.
Brad Dorsey Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 3 hours ago, Steelbeatinviolin said: I want to learn craft violins and even enter into contests with them... Contests for violin playing or contests for violin making?
JacksonMaberry Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 Please save yourself a lot of trouble and frustration and study before launching into making or modifying anything. When you say "competition", do you mean a violin playing competition or a violin making competition? If the former, use whatever you like. If it's a good competition they'll be judging your musicianship, not the instrument. If it's the latter, any respectable violin making competition will absolutely not allow you to enter an old German violin that you desecrated with a new belly. You are not going to make your fortune in lutherie. None of us are. Some of us manage a decent career, after a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. If you're going to do this, do it as best you can, with a great deal of patience and practice, and do it for the right reasons. In my view, the only right reason is because you enjoy it and feel called to do it. All other reasons are an illusion. Best of luck, and I mean it. There is an amazing amount of valuable information on this site, mostly from a small handful of regular contributors. There is also a massive amount of misinformation, disinformation, bare faced lies, wives tales, and idiocy on here. I'd say the ratio is probably around 8:1 in favor of bullshit. If you want to make the most of it, learn how to use the search function and learn who to listen to (and who to ignore).
JacksonMaberry Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 2 hours ago, Steelbeatinviolin said: wide grained top Here's an example of "wives tales" that you should learn to ignore as soon as possible. Go spend a few dozen hours looking at great historical instruments on the net, or in person if at all possible, and you'll soon realize that growth ring spacing (what people erroneously call "grain spacing") has absolutely bugger all to do with anything.
Shunyata Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 23 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said: There is also a massive amount of misinformation, disinformation, bare faced lies, wives tales, and idiocy on here. I'd say the ratio is probably around 8:1 in favor of bullshit. Oh God, I hope I am not one of these mal-contributors!
JacksonMaberry Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 17 minutes ago, Shunyata said: Oh God, I hope I am not one of these mal-contributors! Your posts still show up for me, so at least in my view you're ok. For whatever that's worth!
SCorrea Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 You know, I started from ground zero. Im an engineer in my past life, so I am peeling a new onion. I found the most daunting thing to do was the neck and scroll. I bought some blanks from International violin and started buying a fer chisels and gouges. Im feeling a lot better about what I can do and I suggest you just start somewhere and gain skills. Im not sharp enough yet to see the highly nuanced things hidden in these instruments, but every day or so I have an AHA moment. Build the whole thing with your own hands because starting out you really dont know how to evaluate others work product and come up with some cool add on to it or execute it if you can figgure it out. Stay in the middle somewhere as the extremes get risky and keep plugging away at it. It also helps tremendously to find somebody far better than you and rub elbows. Its a journey, not a short trip
MikeC Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 7 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said: do it for the right reasons. In my view, the only right reason is because you enjoy it and feel called to do it. What he said! After a long career as a code slinger just now building violin number two, I can say it can be done. the 'making the violin' site is good, the J&C book is good. If you can't go to a violin making school the next best thing is to watch a master, watch the youtube videos of Davide Sora, you'll learn a lot from those.
FiddleDoug Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 12 hours ago, Steelbeatinviolin said: I want to learn craft violins and even enter into contests with them. I have found the book called, 'The making of the violin.' Free online resource, it has the Messiah pattern. I wanted to use that manual and learn the art. Do you think I should get cheap tone wood to start out with, or should I go ahead and buy the better wood? At this point, based on what you have previously posted, I think that you're kind of delusional. "The making of the violin." That online resource is pretty minimalistic. Text and a few drawings won't get you anything usable. "Do you think taking an old German trade violin and replacing the belly would work? And do you think it could be used for competition?" Playing competition, maybe yes. Making competition, absolutely not.
Wood Butcher Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 47 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said: At this point, based on what you have previously posted, I think that you're kind of delusional. I think it’s another delusion to think one could make a better top than the one on a trade violin, as a complete beginner. How many attempts would it take to even match it?
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 Yes I was talking about putting them into violin making contests. But I can figure out why it would rejected. Didn't actually build the thing, it would really be someone else's work. And a cheap trade instrument too. What do you think about this for learning the violin crafting? https://lutherieacademy.com/courses/violin Something that interest me with making and fixing violins, is someone will pickup that violin and use it. I can get antique violins and fix them, bringing them back into service. I enjoy doing this, and have fixed a few violins and sold them. But, at a loss of my expense. My biggest loss was FedEx delivery destroying a 1k USD violin. My loss might turn around for me, because I have a Marcel Deloget at auction in Tarisio, the T2 in October. And, I have another violin from mid 20th century that Tarisio said they might put in T2. But now, it does interest me more in fixing antique violins than making new ones. After they are fixed I get to play them. Takes less of time and not as hard to do. I can know the violin is made right. This is how I got my HOPF, and it's really nice violin.
martin swan Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 “Violin making” not “violin crafting” please … unless you’re trying to sound like an AI bot
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 yes, violin making. beeeeeebeeeeebeeebeee.
Brad Dorsey Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 1 hour ago, Steelbeatinviolin said: Yes I was talking about putting them into violin making contests. But I can figure out why it would rejected. Didn't actually build the thing, it would really be someone else's work. And a cheap trade instrument too... It would be rejected because violin making competitions only accept instruments made entirely by the entrants. They wouldn’t accept a “cheap trade instrument” that was “really…someone else’s work” and that you “didn’t actually build.”
FiddleDoug Posted June 8 Report Posted June 8 "What do you think about this for learning the violin crafting? https://lutherieacademy.com/courses/violin " For $587, it had better be good! Note that the course is called "Violin Making", not crafting. Besides the course, you'll probably need several hundred $ in tools. You should also note that if you plan on repairing and restoring violins, you really need to have a good understanding on how to do things properly, not with a box cutter, butter knife, and nail file. You haven't really shown us that you know how to do anything yet. On the other instrument that you posted about, the bridge looked like a blank, right from the store.
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 @FiddleDoug Because of this post I opened the 'Makingoftheviolin' manual and read about this with the bridge. When I get another project to work on I will do this thing with it. The bridge on that other violin was cut down to height. The feet where carved so it would fit the belly. And also it was about 1.2mm at top, with 4.2mm at feet. BUT, looking at the manual I see problems with it. I will try follow that next time. I might be able to adjust the bridge on my HOPF, I think it's action needs go down little bit. I think the feet are wrong on it, too tall. The manual said to measure from end of finger board, but I had read some place not from the very end, but little bit into the finger board.
Steelbeatinviolin Posted June 8 Author Report Posted June 8 So I do have a bridge blank sitting here, a 'josef teller' 2 star bridge blank. I should take that and cut it for the HOPF.
Nick Allen Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 11 hours ago, FiddleDoug said: At this point, based on what you have previously posted, I think that you're kind of delusional. A small bit of self-delusion is one of the secret sauces that will keep mediocrity at bay and elevate oneself towards their vision.
JacksonMaberry Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 8 minutes ago, Nick Allen said: A small bit of self-delusion is one of the secret sauces that will keep mediocrity at bay and elevate oneself towards their vision. Put this on my tombstone!
Marty Kasprzyk Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 24 minutes ago, Nick Allen said: A small bit of self-delusion is one of the secret sauces that will keep mediocrity at bay and elevate oneself towards their vision. I strongly disagree. A small bit of self-delusion isn't very helpful. A big bit is needed.
Brad Dorsey Posted June 9 Report Posted June 9 4 hours ago, Steelbeatinviolin said: ...The manual said to measure from end of finger board, but I had read some place not from the very end, but little bit into the finger board. Measure what?
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