it could be a violin Gaetano Guadagnini?

[violineroman]

what are your thoughts on this violin? is it italian?

[jacobsaunders]

the usual, with a joke label

[Andreas Preuss]

2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

the usual, with a joke label

Aren’t you getting tired to repeat the usual JS comment in dozens of variations? 

what about this abbreviation to make your life easier

TUSCI19C

(=the usual, Saxon cottage industry 19th century)

please feel free to copy paste.

 

[jacobsaunders]

19 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Aren’t you getting tired to repeat the usual JS comment in dozens of variations? 

what about this abbreviation to make your life easier

TUSCI19C

(=the usual, Saxon cottage industry 19th century)

please feel free to copy paste.

 

People complain that they don't know what "the usual" means, so good luck with that

[GeorgeH]

The Definition of the term “the usual” on Maestronet.com according to ChatGPT (AI generated):

”On Maestronet.com, the term “the usual” is colloquially used to describe violins produced in large quantities by the Markneukirchen/Schönbach cottage industry during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. These instruments, often referred to as “Dutzendarbeit” (German for “dozen work”), were mass-produced and sold wholesale to retailers. They vary in quality, ranging from quite basic to reasonably well-made, but they are generally considered trade instruments rather than fine handcrafted violins.

The term “the usual” serves as a shorthand among Maestronet forum members to quickly identify such instruments, especially when distinguishing them from more unique or individually crafted violins. For example, a forum member might remark that a violin “looks like a fine example of ‘the usual’,” indicating it’s a typical product of that specific historical and regional manufacturing process.

It’s important to note that while “the usual” encompasses a broad category of instruments, some may possess features that set them apart, such as higher-quality materials or craftsmanship. However, the term generally implies a certain level of standardization and mass production associated with the Markneukirchen/Schönbach trade violins.”

 

[Andreas Preuss]

22 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

People complain that they don't know what "the usual" means, so good luck with that

Time to create an encyclopdia of MN terms. Each new participant has to pass a test memorizing them.

[violineroman]

thanks for the answer. and what level is this "regular" violin?

Edited May 13 by violineroman

[Mr. Bean]

41 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Time to create an encyclopdia of MN terms. Each new participant has to pass a test memorizing them.

Will save work for all of us! (except for the one that creates the encyclopedia of course!)

[Mr. Bean]

Just now, Mr. Bean said:

Will save work for all of us! (except for the one that creates the encyclopedia of course!)

And the committee that has to judge the applicants!

[Tim M]

Another part of the definition might include value.

"The value of 'the usual', as of 2025, is somewhere between $0 and $3000, and this depends on may factors. If it was made well to start, with great wood, plays well, sounds amazing, is in immaculate condition, and is sold at a reputable shop, maybe $3000. If it was a beginner instrument to start, is in rough shape, and is not playable, then it is worthless to a professional luthier or musician, but might be sold for $50 to an amateur restorer or collector. The only wildcard here is the naïve individual who sees the label and thinks they are getting a real Strad for next to nothing. It's hard to predict what they will be willing to pay."

[Tim M]

So the shorthand could be 'TUSCI19C$0-3000'

[TRK]

The usual to me,  based on my observations of violin ID requests lately seems to be:  …  ……….  ( drum roll) ……………    ………. ……… ……….:::::::::::::::::: Markneukirchen. (with or without a joke label).  Now this may or may not be a  Markneukirchen made instrument, it just seems that the majority of ID requests seem to come up with that answer

[TRK]

3 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

The Definition of the term “the usual” on Maestronet.com according to ChatGPT (AI generated):

”On Maestronet.com, the term “the usual” is colloquially used to describe violins produced in large quantities by the Markneukirchen/Schönbach cottage industry during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. These instruments, often referred to as “Dutzendarbeit” (German for “dozen work”), were mass-produced and sold wholesale to retailers. They vary in quality, ranging from quite basic to reasonably well-made, but they are generally considered trade instruments rather than fine handcrafted violins.

[TRK]

Would you consider a 1920 Ernest Heinrich Roth Strad copy in excellent condition a “quite basic to reasonably well made trade instrument” or a fine handcrafted violin?

[jacobsaunders]

50 minutes ago, TRK said:

Would you consider a 1920 Ernest Heinrich Roth Strad copy in excellent condition a “quite basic to reasonably well made trade instrument” or a fine handcrafted violin?

a "reasonably well made trade instrument”

[GeorgeH]

2 hours ago, TRK said:

Would you consider a 1920 Ernest Heinrich Roth Strad copy in excellent condition a “quite basic to reasonably well made trade instrument” or a fine handcrafted violin?

Roth’s market savvy was to recognize how tens of thousands of generic trade violins were being shipped to the US with no real quality control and retailers just slapping their brand labels in them. He decided his workshop would build his violins to quality and design standards that would define each model in the line plus add brand stamps, serial numbers, and certificates of authenticity tied to the branded serial number. So, in general, you can recognize the different models from their appearance down to the varnish shading.

They are workshop violins like many others, but the quality control was much better than the run-of-the mill dutzendarbeit which is why they sell for a premium today. The high-level models sell for $8,000 and more retail in the U.S.

[Jonathan B]

I notice that reference is made to the Roth "workshop" and I have seen that before. Out of curiosity, did the Roth company actually have its workers in-house in a workshop where they could maintain quality supervision - or did they use cottage outworkers like the majority of the Markneukirchen trade?

[Riccardo964]

14 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

TUSCI19C

(=the usual, Saxon cottage industry 19th century)

That's one very good idea indeed.

[Don Noon]

15 hours ago, violineroman said:

thanks for the answer. and what level is this "regular" violin?

There are more expert evaluators than me, but they don't seem to be jumping in.

I'd say that the wood was decent (figured back, ebony? fingerboard, even grain top), construction mediocre-ish, and currently in very rough shape.  If I had it, I'd dump it on eBay for whatever it could get.  Unless it sounded good, then I'd keep it as a camping fiddle.