Can you teach yourself violin making?

[Flattmountain]

I’m looking for some encouragement if applicable. I was apprenticed to a luthier for three years, and circumstances arose that resulted in the termination of our relationship, with an unfinished violin build and a very complicated unfinished repair. Violin school is not an option, even though I live near the VMSA school in salt lake, because I hold a full time job  

 I don’t want to say I was talented in any special way, but I do have an understanding and a love for it. My apprenticeship ended abruptly around three years ago. Is it an unrealistic desire to continue to teach myself on my own time? I am currently in the gunsmithing industry carving gunstocks, so it’s not like I haven’t used anything I’ve learned…

Do I have them finished by a shop, or try and finish what I started? I’d prefer the latter.

this repair is now taken down as far as it can be except for the ribs.

[Andreas Preuss]

I’d say that’s up to you. 

You can get the violin repaired but I doubt that any shop would be willing to finish your violin. 

[Dr. Mark]

Hi -

2 hours ago, Flattmountain said:

Is it an unrealistic desire to continue to teach myself on my own time?

You didn't say what you're trying to achieve so it's hard to give an appropriate response.  My opinion - not advice - is that sometimes you have to make a decision for yourself, reap the fruits, pay the consequences.

[Michael Darnton]

You can teach yourself violin making, but probably not good violin making. There are too many things to look at all at once as you work, and a good teacher won't let you get too far off the track,  in real time, while you can still correct the problems. I pretty much guarantee that you won't find them on your own.

[Jay Higgs]

Here is just one perspective of a self-taught maker (the "autodidact").  As with other respondents, this is not intended as advice for your own situation.  

1.  I don't think I would have been able to make a living as a luthier without formal training.  I made my living away from the trade, and now I am retired.  I make instruments only for the joy of it.  

2.   I enjoy building, but I would not attempt doing repairs on anyone else's instrument. 

3.  I wish I could work next to an experienced luthier who could watch over me and point out my many errors before they happen.  

4.  There are so many things I love about violin-making!   I love working with wood, getting better even if by trial and error, the amazing history of our craft, the mysteries of acoustics, playing my own instruments, and being part of great communities such as Maestronet.  

 

[Flattmountain]

3 hours ago, Jay Higgs said:

Here is just one perspective of a self-taught maker (the "autodidact").  As with other respondents, this is not intended as advice for your own situation.  

1.  I don't think I would have been able to make a living as a luthier without formal training.  I made my living away from the trade, and now I am retired.  I make instruments only for the joy of it.  

2.   I enjoy building, but I would not attempt doing repairs on anyone else's instrument. 

3.  I wish I could work next to an experienced luthier who could watch over me and point out my many errors before they happen.  

4.  There are so many things I love about violin-making!   I love working with wood, getting better even if by trial and error, the amazing history of our craft, the mysteries of acoustics, playing my own instruments, and being part of great communities such as Maestronet.  

 

I appreciate the sentiment. I once wanted to make a career with luthiery, but now I just want to finish what I started. Thank you for your words!

[Flattmountain]

4 hours ago, Michael Darnton said:

You can teach yourself violin making, but probably not good violin making. There are too many things to look at all at once as you work, and a good teacher won't let you get too far off the track,  in real time, while you can still correct the problems. I pretty much guarantee that you won't find them on your own.

I whole heartedly agree. That’s why I have reservations with moving forward on my own. I am weighing if these fine instruments deserve to be worked on by me alone, or if I ought to pass them along

[Michael Darnton]

You look young enough that you have a few more decades to work this out. I started making at 18, then put it aside completely until I was 35. There's no rush. If you can't get help now, put everything in a box and come back to it when you can. They'll both sleep fine until then.

If you can't sleep, yourself, and really feel compelled to press on now, go ahead, knowing that you will do better when you can get help. Messing up isn't the end of the world. I'd leave the repair for later because you'll only get one shot with that one.

Yours you can do over and over, new. You've already committed to quite a bit, so you might as well press on through if you have the shop and time.

That's my advice, anyway.

[David Burgess]

I think it will be difficult for anyone who has not expressed a career/lifetime sort of interest in the fiddle field, to get the best sort of training. Most high-level people in the trade like to pass on their knowledge, but they also don't like to waste their time on people who only want to tickle around the edges.

While there are some self-taught people who have managed to become pretty good, they are much more the exception than the rule.

[Don Noon]

20 hours ago, Flattmountain said:

Do I have them finished by a shop, or try and finish what I started? I’d prefer the latter.

If your preference is the latter, then do that.  

I consider myself a mostly self-taught amateur maker.  Yes, I have taken a few workshops in making and acoustics, visited a few decent makers to leech their methods for a few days, and attended VSA and other violinmaking competitions.  But by far the vast amount of learning has been from actually doing the work.  It looks like you are far ahead of where I was in the early days.

When I had a full-time job, I was hesitant to tackle making a violin from scratch, so I just messed around fixing up worthless old beaters or cheap student fiddles.  It was only after I retired that I made my first violin.  As I learned more, I became dissatisfied with my previous work, and almost all of the early ones have been apart and modified at least once, and many have been revarnished... sometimes 2 or 3 times.  

I am currently in the middle of work on #34, but I have taken time out to modify and revarnish #2 according to my latest ideas... both to test the new ideas out, and regain what skills I may have lost in the 3 years of inactivity due to some medical issues and some mental burn-out.

This is a long-winded way of saying "do what you want to do", and also that almost anything you do now can be fixed later, if it's needed.

 

 

[Shunyata]

Can you learn on your own?  If you are a critical thinker who critically evaluates your own work and evaluates what is lacking, yes.

Also, you need to fully understand what you are aiming for.  I feel being a reasonably accomplished player who has spent tIme with professionally made violins is essential.

Also you need some exposure to tools and woodworking technique (which tou se to have).  In my case this experience was decades stale, but I at least had an understanding of woodworking and some hands on experience.

[SCorrea]

You can teach yourself to make violins.  There are books, there are videos, there are kind souls that will give you their time.  The quality will probably never be outstanding because you will miss the nuances gained through experience and training by those who are really good at this.  I got a late start at this, I'm picking it up slowly.  I'm in it for the journey.  If you're going to be in it for a vocation, find a school/mentor/shop and do what it takes.  You also need to have a hard discussion on the economics of your future.  I'm not sure a single builder can keep the lights on anymore.  The competition from foreign large-scale builders is formidable.   Get back to building, even a couple hours a week will be huge.  I think you can do that and give time a chance to evolve this answer for you

[LCF]

I can't answer your question directly due to multiple unknown variables but I believe you could since It looks like you already have a good handle on it.  If you have specific questions dozens of highly skilled people here will discuss them with you.

Perhaps you could look into the "contemporay makers gallery" message board at M'Net, see what everyone else is doing and start your own workshop thread. You would be in good company.

 

 

[M Alpert]

Great answers here worth listening to!! And listen to your heart and drive.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned much this time: you need to have exposure to fine instruments to be able to have even the remotest chance of making some.

You should take every chance you can get to handle (or at least look closely at) fine instruments. The best place for this is a workshop, next to someone who can share what you are looking at. Next best, and more accessible, are museums and VSA conventions, or something equivalent.

Good luck, hard work and passion to you!

 

[Greg Sigworth]

Teaching yourself can mean different things to different people. Someone teaches and someone learns; there has to be two people involved. If not a formal well structured  education then you have to somehow find it for yourself, it can be a bumpy road; I guess that is what teaching yourself means. For me just doing it is its own reward; but I listen to and study all I can get from others. This web site is a great resource and there are also some very good video's to watch. I build on what I know and can do. To make a good violin is an incredible feat. Finish your violin and then watch the expression on someone's face when you tell them you made it. Repair work is a whole other creature; new construction vs. repair. God's speed to you and your journey.

[HoGo]

On 5/11/2025 at 11:23 PM, Shunyata said:

Can you learn on your own?  If you are a critical thinker who critically evaluates your own work and evaluates what is lacking, yes.

Also, you need to fully understand what you are aiming for.  I feel being a reasonably accomplished player who has spent tIme with professionally made violins is essential.

Also you need some exposure to tools and woodworking technique (which tou se to have).  In my case this experience was decades stale, but I at least had an understanding of woodworking and some hands on experience.

I am a self taught and followed EXACTLY what Shunyata posted above... I attended no wodworking or luthiery courses at all, I learned woodworking from carving spoons as a boy and following through more and more complicated projects. I played a lot of music as accomplished player and tested many hundreds of high quality instruments everywhere I went. I learned luthiery basics from books available in libraries before internet came and afer that lots from internet. You need to learn to sort the good bits from all the BS that is spread all over internet and still gain some experience on your own errors at the bench.

I'm not a pro builder (living solely out of making mandolins in central EU would be funny), I'm still making them as a hoby in spare time but most of my instruments are in hands of professionals or at lest very capable semi-pro players.

[Flattmountain]

On 5/11/2025 at 6:44 AM, Michael Darnton said:

You look young enough that you have a few more decades to work this out. I started making at 18, then put it aside completely until I was 35. There's no rush. If you can't get help now, put everything in a box and come back to it when you can. They'll both sleep fine until then.

I am. And having a midlife crisis at 22 is pretty silly.

I started my apprenticeship at 15, and ended after my first year of college. These instruments have been sitting for 4 years, and I’ve been ok, but I’ve been bothered by it almost every day. Since I posted this, a generous maker near me has reached out and offered a trade of labor for knowledge, so I will be moving forward with guidance. I just had my white violin shipped from Nashville to utah and it arrived yesterday. I’m excited to keep making updates again. 

[Flattmountain]

On 5/13/2025 at 3:22 AM, HoGo said:

I am a self taught and followed EXACTLY what Shunyata posted above... I attended no wodworking or luthiery courses at all, I learned woodworking from carving spoons as a boy and following through more and more complicated projects. I played a lot of music as accomplished player and tested many hundreds of high quality instruments everywhere I went. I learned luthiery basics from books available in libraries before internet came and afer that lots from internet. You need to learn to sort the good bits from all the BS that is spread all over internet and still gain some experience on your own errors at the bench.

I'm not a pro builder (living solely out of making mandolins in central EU would be funny), I'm still making them as a hoby in spare time but most of my instruments are in hands of professionals or at lest very capable semi-pro players.

Thank you for the encouragement! This is why I posted. A maker near me kindly reached out and I will be working with him on Saturdays. It will be slow, but it will be progress. I had a goal to one day make at least one of each instrument that a luthier could be troubled with. Maybe after I finish making my violin I will teach myself to make a mandolin!

[Flattmountain]

Thank you to everyone who replied. I am going through and responding, because I didn’t get any notifications since posting this. I am much busier now than I was a few years ago in school. So just know I appreciate all of you, and I’ll be checking up on this forum more often. 

[violins88]

Do you have the Brian Derber book? I do. But I am not a schooled maker. It would be very useful to have some thoughts about this book from professional makers. I suppose they have not bought the book because they don’t need it. Still, it would be useful to have those opinions.

[fscotte]

yes, easier than building mandolins, and I started with mandos.

[violins88]

On second thought…. Maybe I should listen, instead of talking.

[Brian in Texas]

To the original poster of this thread: For what it's worth, this is exactly what I'm doing. Between some books, internet forums, and thorough instructional videos on YouTube, self teaching is what I'm doing in lieu of an in-person mentor. It's messy and I've made a ton of mistakes, but the mistakes are teachable moments.

For the longest time, decades in fact, I held off on the idea of pursuing violinmaking because circumstances prevented me from moving across the country to study for several years, and the idea of trying it from a DIY perspective felt about as likely as becoming an amateur brain surgeon. But a huge shift occurred in me when I realized a couple of things. First, I'm not getting any younger, and I'd rather be a mediocre violinmaker than die an old man regretting that he never gave it a shot. And second, that I have my own shop anyway, and I don't need to ask for anyone else's permission to try.

[Will Turner]

On 5/18/2025 at 8:33 AM, Flattmountain said:

Thank you to everyone who replied. I am going through and responding, because I didn’t get any notifications since posting this. I am much busier now than I was a few years ago in school. So just know I appreciate all of you, and I’ll be checking up on this forum more often. 

I found that I had to turn the "follow topic" switch at the very bottom of the page to get notifications.   

As for your learning as a maker, based on what you had shown for your as yet incomplete violin that you had started with instruction, you are further along than many that would continue with the self-taught approach.   Three years of apprenticeship is a great start.  

Woodworking skills are something one has to experience with instruction to get really good at the basics.   Your examples that you have progressed very well.  Especially at a young age when you are most likely to learn those skills with great result.  

One may wonder how much more you might have learned with a formal school versus three years of apprenticeship.  In some cases, outside finishing the violin, perhaps very similar.   Most are encouraged to intern with a professional to continue the progress.    Perhaps one might consider that you are closer to semi-professional than amateur? 

I had no formal education, mostly I tried books and then asked local luthiers if they'd take a look and offer suggestions.   Several have been friendly enough to offer good advice, where as others told me to either purchase their own products or leave.  I never took that poorly, after all advice doesn't make them money.

As for good advice that's free, you are here on Maestronet! 

There are a lot of excellent resources available.    @Brian in Texas for example recommended some great books when I asked about books to consider.   Also @Davide Sora has some great videos as he creates his violins and lately a cello!

Lot's of great information to consider when I got to the varnishing stages as well.   Be sure to checkout the Creaters Workbench area of this forum, lots of good info there as well.

 

[ChrisBk]

Hi

I can help with encouragement. Over the last year, I have learned more skills and also knowledge than before, just because of my motivation and because I am very dedicated. I studied medicine, but I learned more making instruments! 

For my birthday last year, a friend gifted me a book about how to make your own acoustic guitar, and that was just the spark I needed to start all this. Since then- everything lutherie! The only downside though, I would love to have more workshop time, but there is also this other life I am living :-)

It might take many years to become a real master, but everybody can be proud of themselves after finishing an instrument! I would say, a lifetime achievement for most of us. Certainly though, it won^t stop after the first instrument...

all the best

Chris from Austria