"School" for violin and bow restoration?

[Nick Lewis]

I've been in the violin world for about 8 years now, made a few and done basic repairs. Like most people, I got into it as a (amateur) maker, but I'm actually enjoying the art of restoration a lot more. So I'm setting out to learn more. I have several student violins (and bows) to practice on that were donated. 

I used to live in Utah and visited the school in SLC, and I remember they didn't really do much with restoration, primarily focused on making. Are most other schools similar? Is there a "school" for restoration, or is that something primarily learned on the job? What about available workshops (preferably in-person)? I discovered Iris Carr and saw she offers several online courses, and her work looks stunning. 

I'd invest in the Weisshar book, as long as people still think it's the best out there (knowing that it's not perfect). I've really enjoyed the Triangle Strings posts too. But there's a balance of learning by reading and learning by doing, ideally they complement each other. 

[joerobson]

56 minutes ago, Nick Lewis said:

I've been in the violin world for about 8 years now, made a few and done basic repairs. Like most people, I got into it as a (amateur) maker, but I'm actually enjoying the art of restoration a lot more. So I'm setting out to learn more. I have several student violins (and bows) to practice on that were donated. 

I used to live in Utah and visited the school in SLC, and I remember they didn't really do much with restoration, primarily focused on making. Are most other schools similar? Is there a "school" for restoration, or is that something primarily learned on the job? What about available workshops (preferably in-person)? I discovered Iris Carr and saw she offers several online courses, and her work looks stunning. 

I'd invest in the Weisshar book, as long as people still think it's the best out there (knowing that it's not perfect). I've really enjoyed the Triangle Strings posts too. But there's a balance of learning by reading and learning by doing, ideally they complement each other. 

Learning Trade Secrets with Rodney Moore

[FiddleDoug]

Hans J. Nebel runs Violin Restoration Workshops at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts every June. These a one week sessions, and after the initial "beginner's" subjects that are taught the first week, the more advanced topics are done 2 weeks per year, for a 4 year series. I've been attending these for years, and I always learn, even on subjects that I've done before. A big advantage of doing it in person is the the instructor can critique your work, and offer suggestions on how to do things better. There is also no written in stone method for doing every repair. Every repair is likely to have it's own little nuances, where the suggestions from a very experienced restorer are worth their weight in gold.

There are some other workshops as well, and none are inexpensive or cover everything in a longer, more comprehensive session.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Nick Lewis said:

Is there a "school" for restoration, or is that something primarily learned on the job? What about available workshops (preferably in-person)? I discovered Iris Carr and saw she offers several online courses, and her work looks stunning. 

Iris Carr has been one of the rotating group of world-class guest teachers at what was once The Oberlin Restoration Workshop, now called the American Lutherie Institute.

https://www.facebook.com/oberlinviolinrestoration/

[Brad Dorsey]

3 hours ago, joerobson said:

Learning Trade Secrets with Rodney Moore

 

3 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

Hans J. Nebel runs Violin Restoration Workshops at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts…

I have attended these, and I found both to be excellent.  But expensive with travel and lodging costs.

[Nick Lewis]

Thanks for those suggestions! Looks like going rate is around 1000-1100 for tuition. Maybe I’ll try for one a year and take the slow game approach, and keep practicing on my own. I think I’m most intrigued by varnish retouch, it’s amazing to see a repair completely masked from the outside. From what I gather on this forum, I might be getting into a lifelong learning…just what I like. 
 

Does the Weisshar book have any info on retouch?

[Brad Dorsey]

Yes.  And there's also "The Art of Violin Retouching" by Brian Epp.

[M Alpert]

@Nick Lewis

Where are you based? There is also a year-long repair program in Red Wing, MN, where I went. Used to be a very good teacher.

And summer courses at UNH (New Hampshire). And is there anything at North Bennet St School is Boston anymore?

Or, if you can make friends with a good luthier near you, show them your work and get tips, in trade for lunch or a beer... there are ways!

[Brad Dorsey]

6 hours ago, M Alpert said:

@Nick Lewis

...summer courses at UNH (New Hampshire)?...

The UNH classes are now offered throughout the year, but on-line only.  It's hard for me to imagine that they could work on-line, but one member here told me that he got a lot out of some on-line bow classes.  I heard that the violin repair instructor (Paul Weissmeyer) refused to teach on-line, because he didn't think it could work.

 

6 hours ago, M Alpert said:

@Nick Lewis

...is there anything at North Bennet St School is Boston anymore?...

Violin making is still taught there, but it's a full-time program.  There are no week-long classes.

[Mark Norfleet]

One can learn a lot from the books available, but I think a foundation of long term in person experience with someone who is very good and thoughtful is essential.  Especially for some of the more challenging aspects of repair and restoration, including retouching.  I know I benefited greatly from spending 10 years daily with David Burgess and will always be grateful that I lucked into that opportunity, apparently with the help of Eric Chapman.

I will add that before I got to work with David I spent about 18 months at a shop with someone who had much less training and experience.  What I was able to learn through my time with David, who in addition to being a well respected maker has a great background in restoration, was invaluable and vastly superior.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

17 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Iris Carr has been one of the rotating group of world-class guest teachers at what was once The Oberlin Restoration Workshop, now called the American Lutherie Institute.

https://www.facebook.com/oberlinviolinrestoration/

Full disclosure: I am one of the directors, but this is simply a redirect to the new website if anyone would like to access it. I do believe we're full this year.

https://alirestoration.com

[Nick Lewis]

8 hours ago, M Alpert said:

@Nick Lewis

Where are you based? There is also a year-long repair program in Red Wing, MN, where I went. Used to be a very good teacher.

And summer courses at UNH (New Hampshire). And is there anything at North Bennet St School is Boston anymore?

Or, if you can make friends with a good luthier near you, show them your work and get tips, in trade for lunch or a beer... there are ways!

I’m in Seattle area, so workshops would require travel. Thanks for the idea of lunch/beer! I always feel timid approaching a stranger asking for something, that sounds like a good way to not only thank them but also be less of a stranger. 

[Nick Lewis]

2 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

UNH classes are now offered throughout the year, but on-line only

Is there a reason they went to online only? I’m guessing covid had something to do with that, but I’m curious why they’re still only online. Certainly better than nothing, but even learning computer programming was a better experience in-person than online.

[M Alpert]

2 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

The UNH classes are now offered throughout the year, but on-line only.  It's hard for me to imagine that they could work on-line, but one member here told me that he got a lot out of some on-line bow classes.  I heard that the violin repair instructor (Paul Weissmeyer) refused to teach on-line, because he didn't think it could work.

Ouch, bummer that they're only online. Learning Trade Secrets would be a prime option for short courses then.

[M Alpert]

Retouching can be learned by practice also, if you have time. God knows there's enough old instruments floating around that would need it.

There are lots of ideas on YouTube, and probably even better info to be found browsing MN. Just don't practice on anything valuable.

Another alternative if you're interested in retouching is take a painting course - the color theory is very similar, even if the mediums are different.

[Brad Dorsey]

2 hours ago, Nick Lewis said:

Is there a reason they went to online only? I’m guessing covid had something to do with that, but I’m curious why they’re still only online…

Yes, Covid.

My theory for why it’s still on-line is that the program administrators discovered, during Covid, that the classes could be taught on-line, even if not as well.  And, with the classes on-line, the University didn’t have to provide classrooms and bear other costs and inconveniences associated with an on-campus program, but it could still charge the same (or higher) tuitions.  After Covid, these financial incentives led the administrators to continues the program on-line.

I have not taken any of the UNH classes on line, but I can’t imagine that the learning experience is as good as it used to be.  I remember Hans Nebel, the violin repair instructor, saying that the University did not care about violin making/repair.  It only cared that it had unoccupied classrooms and dormitories that it wanted to fill in the summer.

[David Burgess]

22 hours ago, Nick Lewis said:

Does the Weisshar book have any info on retouch?

It does, and it is a wonderful book, but it came into print around the 1980's, and restoration techniques (including retouching) have undergone some significant improvements over the intervening years.

[The Violin Beautiful]

7 hours ago, Nick Lewis said:

Is there a reason they went to online only? I’m guessing covid had something to do with that, but I’m curious why they’re still only online. Certainly better than nothing, but even learning computer programming was a better experience in-person than online.

UNH decided to oust the Violin Craftsmanship Institute. The instructors would have happily gone back to in-person instruction but the University didn’t want to resume the program.

College campuses have taken a much more insular approach in recent years and have attempted to limit public access by cutting out programs that would bring non-students in (except for prospective students and alumni who will give them money, of course!). That way, they can tell parents of students that security is more stringent without hiring any extra campus security personnel. 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

2 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

College campuses have taken a much more insular approach in recent years and have attempted to limit public access by cutting out programs that would bring non-students in (except for prospective students and alumni who will give them money, of course!). That way, they can tell parents of students that security is more stringent without hiring any extra campus security personnel. 

I can't read the college administrators minds, but that jives with our experiences in Oberlin the last few years. It is why we took the program "private" and found a new "home".

[Chamberlain]

I’ve taken over 10 UNH online classes and found them to be very helpful. Yes in person is ideal for learning, but I do feel online live classes are a nice middle ground between in person and reading a book or watching a video. 
The knowledgeable UNH instructors have gone out of their way to set their zoom classes up to be interactive and personalized. I don’t mind sitting in my own workshop learning how to repair bows and working along a master on the French methods like Lynn Hannings-even if it is on zoom. 
 

[The Violin Beautiful]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

I can't read the college administrators minds, but that jives with our experiences in Oberlin the last few years. It is why we took the program "private" and found a new "home".

I had the impression the same thing was happening with Oberlin. After the varnish “incident” in the bass making workshop it seemed like the school had the summer workshop on a timer. The pandemic provided an excuse—once the programs had been paused it was easier not to resume them.

I was disappointed to see the programs shuttered but I’m glad the VSA has found a new spot for now. 

[Nick Lewis]

18 hours ago, David Burgess said:

restoration techniques (including retouching) have undergone some significant improvements over the intervening years.

I've been curious about this...what types of changes? Is it from new materials available, or people finding out that something repaired 40 years ago isn't holding up well? Or are there just more efficient/less invasive ways of getting things done?

Part of the appeal to me of restoration is that there appears to be a lot of innovation to be had.

[Nick Lewis]

14 hours ago, Chamberlain said:

I do feel online live classes are a nice middle ground between in person and reading a book or watching a video

Definitely! I think the main thing that's always missing in online stuff is the "linger longer" effect. Workshops are primarily for learning, but there's also the intangibles of networking and just making new friends or acquaintances. I haven't made a single significant friend or connection in the last 5 years via remote work or meetings, they've all come from doing things in-person.

Has anyone cracked the code on how to still network and get to know people when everything is just online? 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

13 hours ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

I was disappointed to see the programs shuttered but I’m glad the VSA has found a new spot for now. 

To be clear: The programs at Oberlin were not shuttered by the college as far as I know.   The pandemic prevented operations for a couple years, followed by a planned renovation that prevented using the facility last year. The restoration program was able to find an alternative location last year and will probably remain there as long as we behave.  

[David Burgess]

5 hours ago, Nick Lewis said:

I've been curious about this...what types of changes? Is it from new materials available, or people finding out that something repaired 40 years ago isn't holding up well? Or are there just more efficient/less invasive ways of getting things done?

Part of the appeal to me of restoration is that there appears to be a lot of innovation to be had.

Much of the change has to do with preserving more of what is original, versus mimicking what was original using replacement parts and varnish.