Rosewood Fingerboard

[Marcus London]

I’ve just bought a Caressa and Francais Viola 1904, we’re now a few weeks into our relationship,  trying string tensions, luthier check etc. short 360mm vibrating string length. So I love the ‘French sound’. [Super rich in overtones and sizzly - use flat bow and enjoy].

Caressa and Francais were successors to Gand & Bernardel/Gustave B/ and the firm were premier luthiers in Paris at the height of its eminence, luthiers to King, Emperor and Conservatoire who had courage to make their instruments look new, when antiquing became the fashion for competitors, e.g. JB Vuihhaume. Where Vuihhaume was an innovator and entrepreneur [as I understand it] G&B were consolidators. And ‘top notch’ as we say in Britain.

Gand and Bernardel workshop would have carefully sourced and good wood stocks selected from the finest available stocks, etc… the  whole ensemble, wood selection varnish is consistent with mine 12 years earlier and a colleague’s 8 years before that… Yet this ‘top notch’ Viola from Paris in 1904 has a rosewood fingerboard. Why not ebony? Caressa and Francais could afford ebony. Is this a bad thing?

“To love in order to understand, to understand in order to love, this is not going round in a circle, but rising spirally, if we have made the initial effort”

One of my favourite Stravinsky quotes [1942 at Harvard]

Initial effort = obvs. check  Maestronet - HUGE THANKS to Jeffrey and all experts who keep and have kept this resource going, we REALLY appreciate it.

So Mr. William Johnston posted June 4 1999:

“There are a lot of kinds of rosewood. Some are softer than ebony, some are just as hard, and some are harder. If you are making a violin and want to use a rosewood fingerboard then cocobolo or Madagascar rosewood would be the best choices. They are as dense as the densest ebony plus they have lots of resin in the wood. You can sand them smooth with 220, 400, 600, then 1,500 grit sandpaper then use a buffing wheel to get the resin to coat the surface of the wood. This will give an extremely smooth fingerboard that will look great.”

Madagascar was a French protectorate from 1882 and colony from 1897 to1958. French “pacification” lasted about fifteen years. So it’s Madagascar no doubt. The best Paris could afford… dates correspond. You wouldn’t spend fifteen years ‘pacifying’ Madagascar [it costs a lot of money to do this]  if you didn’t also “use” the rosewood. Plus ca change - it’s part of the history, I suppose.

 

 

[donbarzino]

 

Most of the rosewood fingerboards I have run across have been stained or painted black

to resemble ebony.

Yours could have had its original colored surface removed during resurfacing.

How thick is your fingerboard ?

I believe rosewood is more resonant than ebony. Do you notice anything unusual

in the response around the resonant frequency of the fingerboard ?

[JacksonMaberry]

As you've discovered, the rosewoods (Dalbergia spp) are absolutely all over the place in density, stiffness, etc. They're also in many ways more precious than the ebonies, both now and then. Today most are critically endangered and hard to get. If you ever travel internationally with this instrument, be prepared with the proper documents. 

Certain rosewoods are higher in possible density than the hardest ebonies. 

Keep in mind also that no small quantity of the "ebony" in service and in use now and historically is in fact "African Blackwood", which is not only not ebony, but is rosewood - Dalbergia melanoxyn. 

They used what they had access to and wanted to use. 

[JacksonMaberry]

For your delectation, from "Wood Database":

To be considered the original ebony, African Blackwood was imported and used in Ancient Egypt thousands of years ago. Even the name “ebony” has an Egyptian derivation as “hbny”—which has been shown to refer to primarily to Dalbergia melanoxylon, rather than the species which are considered to be ebony today: such as those in the Diospyros genus. In addition, African blackwood is technically in the Rosewood genus (Dalbergia), and is more stable and resistant to movement and warping than other types of ebony.

 

African blackwood is considered to be among the hardest and densest of woods in the world; indeed, among some 285 species tested, (including Lignum Vitae), Gabriel Janka originally found African Blackwood to be the very hardest. Unfortunately, many online sources list African blackwood’s Janka hardness at only ~1700lbf—which seems very unlikely given its confirmed specific gravity.

 

https://www.wood-database.com/african-blackwood/

[martin swan]

Personally I would be pretty surprised if a rosewood fingerboard on a Caressa & Francais was original. 

[Marcus London]

It is stained black, but underneath rosewood - I am taking it to a luthier on Thursday and will ask if he thinks it’s original. But the Madagascar thing means it might be? Pegs are rosewood on all 3 instruments…

[martin swan]

22 minutes ago, Marcus London said:

It is stained black, but underneath rosewood - I am taking it to a luthier on Thursday and will ask if he thinks it’s original. But the Madagascar thing means it might be? Pegs are rosewood on all 3 instruments…

Pretty much every French violin I have seen in original condition (many hundreds) has rosewood pegs.

Madagascar was a major source of ebony too ... more so than rosewood.

And don't forget that the French had major trading relations with India.

[Marcus London]

All good points.

[Marcus London]

Here are some pics showing the rosewood patches.

Fingerboard is 3.5-5mm max at the edges thick. Doesn't look as if it has been planed  at all. May be a new fingerboard as @martin swansuggested. [Even so I hope it's Madagascar

[Thanks for the info on rosewoods by the way @JacksonMaberry. There is no end to enquiry]

The instrument seems to have come from New York given the card for Jacues Francais left in the mid 1970s case.

It has  been played a lot. Though the rosewood patches don't corespond with playing marks, maybe some solvent got onto it? Maybe alcohol was used to clean the strings?

Thanks to the wonders of the internet I now know that the viola [no. 109] was tabled on  5 September 1904.

https://archivesmusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/fonds-lupot-gand-bernardel-caressa-francais-presentation.aspx?_lg=en-US

The writing on the ribs says it was given as 1st prize in 1907 at the Paris Conservatoire to Rene Montfeuillard [who -also thanks to the internet - born 17 April 1886 in Vouziers]. 

So it has a history which I like. 2 new birthdays to celebrate. Still learning how to play it…each note has a different character. I love the way f natural above middle C sounds on a viola, we don't really get this on the violin, a lovely resonant F in the lower register. The instrument is beautiful craftsmanship and sits well on the collarbone. 

I take my hat off to all the expert luthiers who make these things, the selection, consistency, craft that goes into it.

[Mark Norfleet]

That looks like ebony to me.

What do you mean by rosewood underneath?  Under what you presume to be stain, or on the underside of the fingerboard?

It is not uncommon for ebony to have these brownish areas.

[Wood Butcher]

The fingerboard is ebony, not rosewood. Those lighter patches can occur in otherwise excellent quality ebony.
Sometimes they are revealed, as the fingerboard is successively trued, and may not have been visible originally. Other times they were there from the start.

[Marcus London]

Many thanks!

[Marcus London]

PS the fingerboard is not original, tiny nicks in the neck show where it has been removed. It's not stained, my naive assumption,  with the luthier at the moment being shot - fine ebony with rosy spots. Thanks as always Maestronet.

[Mark Norfleet]

11 minutes ago, Marcus London said:

tiny nicks in the neck show where it has been removed.

That may not mean that it isn't original.

[Marcus London]

Not conclusive, but I don't think C&F quality control would let it out of the workshop with the nicks. Plus it's quite thick and viola has been played a lot in last 120 yrs. Can’t send you a pic - with the luthier. Thanks as always for advice.

[Wood Butcher]

Over 120 years, the fingerboard was probably re-glued several times. Whatever nicks you are talking about could have happened at any point since it was made.

[Marcus London]

Good point

[rickpmills]

That is a beautiful viola, Marcus!!

On the same subject, I think that the violin on the right has a rosewood fingerboard. I say this because I have another violin which has a rosewood fingerboard with the same grain & it is mauvey brown in colour. The grain is very noticeable but it plays well. It's not to everybody's taste but I really like it (see below). I also have two violins with lovely black ebony fb's with brown streaks (both had been painted), anor one with possibly boxwood (I stained it with permanent India ink), & the one shown below which looks like beech (?) - I'll most likely have it replaced in thinned down ebony to match exactly in profile - this really cheap violin has a great tone and volume. 

 

[Wood Butcher]

I doubt you do have a rosewood fingerboard, that would be fairly unusual. The other one is most likely slab cut maple.

[Richf]

Quick aside.   Would an original viola fingerboard from France circa 1900 have a beveled surface for the C string?  (Not present on OP’s instrument.)  Just curious how long that feature was common in France or elsewhere—if ever. 

[rickpmills]

Wood Butcher

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Posted Friday at 05:53 PM

I doubt you do have a rosewood fingerboard, that would be fairly unusual. The other one is most likely slab cut maple.

 

Slab cut maple. Thanks WB. That's useful.

I've done a bit more research - I think you're absolutely right, both fingerboards on the violins shown are not rosewood but probably brown ebony which is apparently not part of the black ebony family but is very dense, hard wearing & pretty attractive in my book. Normally they would be painted over black. The set up violin had been, the luthier who resurfaced it left it as you see it, & the other one has not ever been painted as far as I can tell. But strange because it would have been viewed as being very inferior. Unless it has also been stripped in the past. In any case I am very much looking forward to sanding it smooth & putting a little oil on it to bring out its glory.

Anyone else interested in non black ebony fingerboards?

 

[rickpmills]

On 10/3/2025 at 5:53 PM, Wood Butcher said:

I doubt you do have a rosewood fingerboard, that would be fairly unusual. The other one is most likely slab cut maple.

I'm pretty sure it is rosewood you know (another pic. attached). I've been hammering away at ChatCPT from every conceivable angle 'it' seemed pretty certain (wish I'd mentioned to save the threads).

Don't know what else it could be. It's not ebony - look at the grain, or a European hardwood. The colour was revealed very recently when the fingerboard was resurfaced by my luthier. It is a mild purple/plum hue, not really brown at all. 

[Altgeiger]

28 minutes ago, rickpmills said:

ChatGPT... seemed pretty certain

The curse of our times.

[lvlagneto]

I have no idea what chat GPT could offer... people are here.

[rickpmills]

3 hours ago, lvlagneto said:

I have no idea what chat GPT could offer... people are here.

In this instance there is no-one who has that level of expertise on the forum