A bow question for violists

[Sorgo]

Hello, violists!

I would like to know whether you play with a viola or a violin bow. Do you exclusively play with one or the other? Do you have both, and then switch according to repertoire/technique/whichever preferences?

If you prefer a violin bow on the viola or if you occasionally switch, what exact differences would you say you can feel over playing with a viola bow (except weight, of course)?

I'm interested to know since a luthier told me a while ago that a great number of their violist clients (mostly professional orchestra violists) mainly play with violin bows. This was after I inquired about buying a wood viola bow. I remember my father, who was a professional violist as well, at some point switching from a viola to a violin bow—however, this was after he mostly stopped playing solo and chamber repertoire and stuck to playing in an orchestra exclusively.

I recently tried out my old violin bow on my viola instead of my current carbon viola bow that I usually play with, and can't help but feel I prefer the slight boost in agility. Then again, it just might be the familiarity I'm experiencing, since I'm one of those silly ex-violinists who started fancying themselves a violist...

[Altgeiger]

I've heard of these violists who play with violin bows, but I don't see (or at least notice) it often.  I don't think you get a viola sound as easily with a violin bow, when I've tried it.

[reedman]

Primrose used a violin bow.

[Andrew Victor]

I don't like the idea of using violin bows on violas without knowing more about the bows. I used at least one of my violin bows on a viola when I added it - and that worked out fine. But about 25 years later, during an orchestra rehearsal, an experienced violist asked me to lend him a bow. I loaned him my F. N. Vorin  violin bow. Within minutes the bow developed a longitudinal break behind the head, which was then connected to the rest of the bow only by the hair. It was a fairly long break (2-inches long) and a horn p;layer offered to fix it - he did a great job and it is still great (25 years later).

I concluded that the bow was probably already broken in the early 1930s when my father bought it - so it had held together with the (simply glued) break for more than 60 years and withstood pretty consistent violin playing.

If you have a bow that can withstand the extra forces and works and sounds best - OK!

 

[Chamberlain]

On 4/3/2025 at 7:53 AM, Sorgo said:

Hello, violists!

I would like to know whether you play with a viola or a violin bow. Do you exclusively play with one or the other? Do you have both, and then switch according to repertoire/technique/whichever preferences?

If you prefer a violin bow on the viola or if you occasionally switch, what exact differences would you say you can feel over playing with a viola bow (except weight, of course)?

I'm interested to know since a luthier told me a while ago that a great number of their violist clients (mostly professional orchestra violists) mainly play with violin bows. This was after I inquired about buying a wood viola bow. I remember my father, who was a professional violist as well, at some point switching from a viola to a violin bow—however, this was after he mostly stopped playing solo and chamber repertoire and stuck to playing in an orchestra exclusively.

I recently tried out my old violin bow on my viola instead of my current carbon viola bow that I usually play with, and can't help but feel I prefer the slight boost in agility. Then again, it just might be the familiarity I'm experiencing, since I'm one of those silly ex-violinists who started fancying themselves a violist...

I will let the pro violists answer from the pro player point of view.
As a viola player in a public school I played viola with a violin bow because that’s what we had. I’ve also seen violin sticks magically converted to viola bows with the quick addition of viola frogs. Wondering if some players just got used to the weight and balance of a violin bow in a situation like that. There’s also very dense violin sticks that probably do play like a viola bow especially on smaller violas. 

From a bow rehair view viola sticks are heavier and often have a slightly wider mortise (Not sure if they all do. That could be an interesting quick study) to allow for a slightly larger hair amount for rehairing. Those two things would make a difference. Does that play/sound better on a thicker string? 
Also perhaps the size of the viola played makes a difference.

A 16.5” played with a proper density/weight and balance and haired violin bow vs a proper density/weighted and balanced and haired viola bow- I would think would be a big difference 

[Altgeiger]

9 hours ago, reedman said:

Primrose used a violin bow.

Now that I think of it, so did Robert Vernon. Both men sounded great, though maybe Primrose's lovely tone was not the most characteristic viola sound.  I have heard of a couple using 'cello bows.  There's probably some relation between the size of the instrument and the need for a heavier, stiffer bow: Primrose's violas were small, and I don't know about Vernon's, but the couple I've known who used 'cello bows both played large, rugged violas.

I've never found a violin bow that made my instruments, small or large, sound like violas, and the 'cello bow was too much weight for agility in the viola bowing position, while making it too hard to play softly, too easy to overload the instrument.  I'd say there's a reason viola bows exist, and to use something else ignores the wisdom of our forebears.

[Payton Violins]

I stick with a viola bow—I like the weight and the way it grabs the string. I’ve tried violin bows out of curiosity, but I find I can’t get the same sound or control, especially on the C string. The extra weight really helps with projection and resonance.

[JavierPortero]

Depends on the viola... but I just use viola bows. Lighter or heavier depending on repertoire.

[Stephen Fine]

I have both cases open in my studio when I teach and I sometimes grab the violin bow by accident and as soon as it hits the string it feels tiny (by which I mean light and not stiff enough).  I wouldn't want to try to playing anything intense with it, but it'd be fine for most things.  The viola bow sounds better.

On my Baroque viola strung with gut I use lighter bows close in weight to violin bows, but that's a very different bow stroke and technique.

I'd think that Primrose had a bunch of bows.  He was a bit of a collector I thought.  I would be surprised if he only or even mostly used violin bows.  I've seen Ron MacDonald a couple places on the internet (including here a few times over the past 20 years) saying that a friend of his inherited a favorite bow of Primrose's that was a heavy gold-mounted Voirin violin bow, but I'm not sure that's conclusive.  reedman, do you have any more information?  I'm not an expert, but he was my teacher's teacher's teacher and you usually learn the interesting tidbits.

[Alto Ego]

I mainly play with a viola bow. Pretty run of the mill modern 70g German varieties in the $3-5k range.

This year, I have started playing with a baroque bow and love its responsiveness, but it’s a bit too light to be an all-arounder causing it to bounce a bit too much. Plus it looks weird in a non-baroque orchestra. I’m looking for a violin bow around the 60-63g range to try. Might even go for a CF bow.