Intense Thumb Muscle Pain-Any Suggestions? (Cello)

[mwu52]

Hi all, new user here. I've been playing the cello for about seven years now and playing seriously for the past two. As I've started playing longer and more intense pieces, I've started to develop pretty intense pain in my right hand thumb muscle. It's not an immediate thing, it fires up after about three minutes of continuous playing, but after it starts, it leaves my thumb area feeling stiff for quite a while after I play. A few triggers that I've found for the pain are playing extensively at the tip and playing intensely or loudly. Some solutions I've tried are:

• Loosening my bow grip
• Adjusting my thumb placement to be more towards the center of the tip of my thumb
• Pushing down more with my arm
• Extending my thumb more at the tip

This pain is really limiting my ability to play longer pieces, so I would greatly appreciate any advice that y'all could give. Thanks!

Edited March 13 by mwu52

[GeorgeH]

4 hours ago, mwu52 said:

This pain is really limiting my ability to play longer pieces, so I would greatly appreciate any advice that y'all could give. Thanks!

See a doctor. 

 

[Randall The Restorer]

Warm-up and stretch before playing. Cool down and stretch after playing.

After playing, immerse hand in very cold water for several minutes to reduce inflammation and eliminate lactic acid buildup.

A cellist's or guitarist's  thumb and finger muscles need the same care that a runner's leg muscles requiure.

Try these stretches:

1. Sequentially touch each fingerip to thumbtip of the same hand, hold for at least ten seconds. Repeat.

2. Try to to touch the center of the palm with the thumbtip and each fingertip of that hand for at least ten seconds. Repeat.

3. With arms outstretched, alternate clenching the fist with maximal spreading of the thumb and fingers.

[Randall The Restorer]

On 3/13/2025 at 5:48 PM, mwu52 said:

I've started to develop pretty intense pain in my right hand thumb muscle.

This pain is really limiting my ability to play longer pieces, so I would greatly appreciate any advice that y'all could give. Thanks!

The thumb pain you describe can be attributed to Cervical Radiculopathy - pressure on the spinal root on that side of the neck.  This is a serious condition.

Seek the advice of a neurologist and/or orthapedic surgeon ASAP. X-Rays and MRI will probably be required for a conclusive diagnosis.

In the meantime, concentrate on good head and neck posture at all times, especially when playing the cello. 

Pain is a sign that something is broken in our body. If it hurts when you do a certain thing STOP doing that certain thing until you know WHY it hurts.

Sincerely,

Randy O'Malley, Cervical Spinal Cord Injury Survivor and guitarist

[Chamberlain]

I’m sorry to hear you are having this pain. It sounds like you have tried a lot and have good advice. 
One additional option would be to have a luthier skilled in bows check the weight and balance of the bow and see if there’s anything you can do with the grip to possibly open the hand up a little to alter the position and angles.

If you don’t have a skilled bow artier luthier, Lynn Hannings in Main maybe someone to check with. She has studied PT for musicians, is a very skilled artier bow maker/repairer and is also a player. She does also work on bows by careful mailing. 

[Hierony]

If you're in an area with a violin shop but no archetier, go try all of their bows--yes, even the super expensive ones if they'll let you. If you're lucky one might fix part of the problem. While you're there try out some different cellos, too. And have them take a look at yours... Maybe check out their list of local teachers, ask if any are experienced with dealing with pain issues. You can try to muscle sound out of your cello but fighting it with your bow isn't particularly effective.

I'll second the recommendation to find a top-notch archetier. They can help you find a bow that works for both the way you're playing and how your cello is responding. But they are few and far between.

Speaking as someone that has played cello with a dislocated thumb (it popped back in after ~2 months), a good occupational therapist might be able to help diagnose any particular weakness and correct them. Some physical therapists can be good with hands/wrists as well.

A book that might be helpful is Janet Horvath's "Playing (Less) Hurt: An Injury Prevention Guide for Musicians". I'm learning a lot from Jennifer Johnson's "What Every Violinist Needs to Know about the Body" (most of it also applicable to cello, and great for my neck pain from a nasty concussion/whiplash accident a few years ago).

Best of luck to you!

[Shunyata]

Are you sure your bow hand mechanics are appropriate?  (Some of your comments suggest you may not.) To have the flexibility and suppleness for good bow control, it seems unlikely that you would put this kind of stress on the thumb.

I would get a consultation with a reputable instructor to review your bow hold.  If your bow hold is fine, there may be physiological limitations at work.

 

[mwu52]

Thank you all for the great advice!

Something pretty major that I forgot to mention in my initial post: I had nerve damage in the right side of my body at birth that temporarily paralyzed my arm, so as @Randall The Restorer suggested, it's likely that this is caused by an underlying condition. As such, I've booked an appointment with a hand doctor.

Also, I've worked at length on my bow hold with several teachers, and while there's still definitely room for improvement, at this point, I don't think it's the root of my issues, but it could definitely be making things worse, so I'll keep on working on it.

And on the topic of the bow itself, I have experimented with several bows and surgical tubing, but I've had issues with even my favorites, so I'll look into it. @Chamberlain and @Hierony, I know this varies from case to case, but are there any other factors to specifically consider when making bow adjustments? Any help would be appreciated!

On another note, as a high schooler, do yall have any suggestions on preventative measures for taking care of my body? This whole experience has made me a lot more conscious about my bow arm, so I'm hoping to nip other issues in the bud before they spring up.

Thanks again for all yall's advice! I plan to leave updates in the hopes that this helps anyone else dealing with similar issues.

[Chamberlain]

I really hope the advice you have received here can help you. It may be a combination of a few things.  Getting it checked medically is foremost. 
Having an incorrect grip with a bow that is not the correct weight or balance for you, the instrument or the style of music you play can make a difference. Also, not sure what quality your current bow and hair is, your playing level or the strings you are playing on.  Are you having to dig in to get the sound you are looking for etc. 
Ideally you should have the bow checked by a knowledgeable luthier or artier.  Or another thing would be to try out other bows, especially if the one you have is a lower quality/value. Maybe your school program has some to try?   

If you would like to give the weight and balance for your current bow some of us here could help give you an idea. Not everyone does weight and balance checks, but when there’s an injury or risk of injury it’s worth checking.  

If you would like help seeing if there is any obvious issue with the bow.  

-Measure its total length in inches.
-Do you have a way to measure its weight? Preferably in grams? 
-For the balance point there are several ways to measure it. My reference charts use the method of loose hair (frog forward towards tip), and measure from tip to end of the actual stick wood behind the frog. (Before the adjuster button)  Others may want form tip to front of frog with loose hair all the way forward or all the way to the very end of the button for their charts 

-Also pictures of the bow would help if you choose to have help with it. 

[Hierony]

It sounds like you've done your due diligence already and are continuing to work on things so hopefully something 'clicks' and solves your problem.

As a high schooler I took a human anatomy & physiology class. It helped me understand a lot but it was missing good details on how to operate said body (obviously kinda personal), but I still have that coloring book. That said elements of alexander technique, yoga, and other mind-body awareness techniques can be super helpful, along with a little weight training (especially for core muscles) for injury prevention, barring physical limitations. Learning how to destress/fully relax is also super valuable. Pyschosomatic stuff gets complicated & convoluted fast...

Something it took me a lot of headache & laying down to learn was that your neck (where a lot your nerves can be pinched) sits on top of your thoracic spine, which sits on your lumbar spine, attached to your pelvis. If you sit or hold your core/pelvis/lumbar spine "wrong" you'll limit what your cervical spine can do (which might mean more nerve pinching, or the big power muscles trying to do the work of little endurance muscles--damn trapezius).

Re Bow Balance: little bits of modeling clay stuck onto either the tip or the frog of the bow work great. That might change the tip dynamics a little, temporarily. The surgical tubing helps sometimes but it's kinda a crutch that adds a few grams/shifts balance point when a player is already struggling... The way the stick stiffness interplays with the camber/curvature determines a lot of the playing characteristics, but there are little tweaks that can modify that some (swapping tip plate, winding/grip, or screw/button materials to change balance &/or dampening). One sign a bow needs new/shorter hair is when it's stretched enough to throw the balance point off.

I heard a story of a retired cello professor who converted to a vertical viola/alto violin due to arthritis pain while playing. At least until they ran across a bow maker that made them a special cello bow. I didn't understand what that really meant until I got a bow from a really good archetier and was amazed at how easy it made it to play--like no extra effort whatsoever to get good & full sound at the tip. It wasn't something I expected to be possible. I'm working now on getting my cello as responsive as possible to take advantage of that bow.

A lot of shops will only have standardish bows in terms of weight & balance, length, and fairly stiff (in my opinion). Sometimes they'll have little oddballs that could work wonders for you if you need something 'non-standard'. It might literally be necessary to try 50-100 bows at a half dozen different shops. If your cello isn't setup very well and is resisting your playing that could also be part of the difficulty...

Heh, one bow I tried even messed up my intonation. It's kinda confusing how everything is inter-connected. So maybe worthwhile to also explore left hand/arm/shoulder/neck tension in some of the situations where your right thumb has issues.

[Andrew Victor]

In my opinion, when you are having pain problems in either hand IS NOT the time to change your approach to right or left-hand  posture. If you MUST play under painful conditions it is time to use any hold that can work for you. Sometimes one has a commitment to play and you need fallback plans. There is nothing I have had to play in ensemble that I could not do as described below although it might not work well for a solo performance.

For me, when the result of aging started to take over my right hand in various ways I found that bowing with my thumb under the frog was one way to compensate for various bowing problems. I often have to start that way, anyway. I can move my thumb from that position to a conventional one or the reverse  in a split-second; in fact sometimes with no break in sound production at all.

A hand massager might provide some relief - I bought mine from Amazon a year ago. It has helped.

[Randall The Restorer]

Consider repetitive stress injury (RSI) to your thumb and hand from other daily or regular activities such as: texting and typing, using a TV remote, playing video games, driving a car, riding a bicycle or motorcycle, manual labor, gripping a bar on public transit, playing certain sports.

Sleeping position can also strain bones and soft tissue of the wrist, hand, and digits. So can habits of hooking the thumbs into the armpits or parts of clothing.