Violin Collin-Mezin

[Pagamini]

Hi, 

Is this a genuine Collin-Mezin? 

The objective is to restore and place the violin on the market. What will be the fair value of this violin once recovered? 

Thanks for your opinions

[lFred]

Violin seems genuine to me,
As far as fair value, with the sound post crack on the back .. idk

[Pagamini]

48 minutes ago, lFred said:

Violin seems genuine to me,
As far as fair value, with the sound post crack on the back .. idk

It also seems genuine to me. But as there are so many Collin-Mezin models, I'm not sure what price range it is in. 

The crack on the back is very serious? It's possible to fix it, right?

[lFred]

3rd generation  CM, When the firm was run by C.M  refereed as fils, 
The Sound post crack is serious, it need a proper repair, the sound will be affected an so will the retail value, a lot more that what the already not so great general condition of the instrument.

Is is worth it to spend time or money to do so ? To me " bof"  as it's not that hard to find CM fils in good condition.






 

 

[Pagamini]

1 hour ago, lFred said:

3rd generation  CM, When the firm was run by C.M  refereed as fils, 
The Sound post crack is serious, it need a proper repair, the sound will be affected an so will the retail value, a lot more that what the already not so great general condition of the instrument.

Is is worth it to spend time or money to do so ? To me " bof"  as it's not that hard to find CM fils in good condition.






 

 

I also have this doubt... but I have seen and the value of CM violins has gone up a lot in recent times

[GeorgeH]

7 hours ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

The crack on the back is very serious? It's possible to fix it, right?

It is certainly repairable with a soundpost patch, but it is a very expensive repair and the value afterward will be diminished by 30-50% of the violin price without a soundpost crack in the back.

[Pagamini]

13 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

It is certainly repairable with a soundpost patch, but it is a very expensive repair and the value afterward will be diminished by 30-50% of the violin price without a soundpost crack in the back.

So you think I should give up this violin? 

Is it worth investing in and recovering it, or is it better to take it back to the attic?

[deans]

I think even with a 50% devaluation this instrument would sit in a shop a long long time before the right guy comes along.

[Pagamini]

2 minutos atrás, os decans disseram:

Acho que mesmo com uma desvalorização de 50%, esse instrumento ficaria em uma loja por muito tempo antes que o cara certo aparecesse.

Once recovered, why wouldn't it be an interesting violin?

[Wood Butcher]

20 minutes ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

Once recovered, why wouldn't it be an interesting violin?

Because there are a lot of Colin-Mezin violins out there, without a soundpost crack in the back, and in much better overall condition. 
 

In truth, it seems to only be the early examples people really get excited over. As the years rolled by and with subsequent generations, the quality went down as the model ranges increased. 

[Pagamini]

15 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Because there are a lot of Colin-Mezin violins out there, without a soundpost crack in the back, and in much better overall condition. 
 

In truth, it seems to only be the early examples people really get excited over. As the years rolled by and with subsequent generations, the quality went down as the model ranges increased. 

It's true, but they are not available at affordable prices, even the most recent Collin-Mezin

[deans]

Believe it or not, not everyone wants a Collin-Mezin. You have to find somebody who really wants one badly enough to live with a fairly significant flaw  and/or doesnt have enough money for a better example. Just not a big market.

[martin swan]

It's not just the post crack in the back - the varnish is in a very poor state, the treble c-bout needs complete reconstruction and there are other bits of edgework missing.

It's the kind of restoration that takes a lot of time and skill, and even if done perfectly I can't see you being able to sell this for more than 40% of the value of a clean one, so a couple of thousand, maybe $3k with the wind behind it. The restoration would surely cost that.

And as Deans has pointed out, there'e a very limited pool of people who would want to buy such a heavily restored example - and they will all be the sort of people who will try to beat you down even further.

[jacobsaunders]

2 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

It is certainly repairable with a soundpost patch, but it is a very expensive repair and the value afterward will be diminished by 30-50% of the violin price without a soundpost crack in the back.

Saying that a soundpost crack in the back would be a debasement of value of 30 to 50% is in my opinion arbitary. Fact is that I for one, would not buy it with that crack at all, even for nothing

[Wood Butcher]

20 hours ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

It's true, but they are not available at affordable prices, even the most recent Collin-Mezin

I don't quite see the relevance. Unless someone had a Collin-Mezin fetish, I think they would just look at something else without a back soundpost crack, and in better condition, which was affordable to them.

Then again, if they did have a Collin-Mezin fetish, they would want to buy one of the best examples on the market.

[Pagamini]

21 hours ago, martin swan said:

It's not just the post crack in the back - the varnish is in a very poor state, the treble c-bout needs complete reconstruction and there are other bits of edgework missing.

It's the kind of restoration that takes a lot of time and skill, and even if done perfectly I can't see you being able to sell this for more than 40% of the value of a clean one, so a couple of thousand, maybe $3k with the wind behind it. The restoration would surely cost that.

And as Deans has pointed out, there'e a very limited pool of people who would want to buy such a heavily restored example - and they will all be the sort of people who will try to beat you down even further.

The back crack is just superficial, it is not cracked on the inside, at least it is not visible. Will it still need to have reinforcement or will it be enough to just glue it on the outside?

[Pagamini]

21 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Saying that a soundpost crack in the back would be a debasement of value of 30 to 50% is in my opinion arbitary. Fact is that I for one, would not buy it with that crack at all, even for nothing

The back crack is just superficial, not cracked inside, at least not visible. How is it the same as if it were completely cracked?

[martin swan]

7 minutes ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

The back crack is just superficial, it is not cracked on the inside, at least it is not visible. Will it still need to have reinforcement or will it be enough to just glue it on the outside?

It's not visible on the inside because you don't have the full force of the strings pushing the soundpost against it.

This will absolutely need a patch in the back. Put some more strings on it, tune it up to pitch and you'll soon find out how superficial it is.

 

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

The back crack is just superficial, not cracked inside, at least not visible. 

Maple (in opposite to spruce) is both resistant and flexible, the thickness in the middle would be close to 4 mm; therefore this crack would need to go along half length or more of the back before it starts to be visible inside.

It‘s a popular trick of sellers to say „only superficial“ or „ just a scratch“ to fool the naive as long as it’s not to spot at the inside. At the point when it’s visible inside it has turned from damage to catastrophe.

[Pagamini]

10 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Maple (in opposite to spruce) is both resistant and flexible, the thickness in the middle would be close to 4 mm; therefore this crack would need to go along half length or more of the back before it starts to be visible inside.

It‘s a popular trick of sellers to say „only superficial“ or „ just a scratch“ to fool the naive as long as it’s not to spot at the inside. At the point when it’s visible inside it has turned from damage to catastrophe.

What would be the right thing to do, glue it on the outside and reinforce it on the inside?

[Strad O Various Jr.]

search for soundpost patch. You would absolutely have to do one, and its not one for amateurs

[Blank face]

6 minutes ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

What would be the right thing to do, glue it on the outside and reinforce it on the inside?

Yes, cleaning the crack, glueing it and making a proper patch (in a cast). It’s questionable, together with the other damages, if this would make much sense from an economical pov, as long as one hasn’t got it for free.

[Wood Butcher]

25 minutes ago, Rodrigo Reis said:

What would be the right thing to do, glue it on the outside and reinforce it on the inside?

The procedure is to take the violin apart, and make a cast of the back. Clean thoroughly and glue the crack, fit some temporary cleats at the ends of the crack. Working in the cast, excavate a significant portion of the cracked area of the back, chalk fit a patch of new wood. Glue the patch in, colour the new wood (optional), then fit permanent cleats over the rest of the crack.
Spend many hours filling and retouching the crack carefully on the exterior side, to match the existing varnish....

If there is also a sound post crack in the top, this procedure will need to be repeated on the belly too. Though it is not possible to tell from the photos, it would seem unlikely that the force required to crack the back, didn't also crack the belly.

Then you need to repair the destroyed belly edges, rebuild it all, possibly reset the neck, bush the scroll, plane the fingerboard, clean it, retouch all the scratches and chips, new bridge, sound post, strings....

[La Folia]

How could it possibly have acquired all that edge damage?  The C bout was damaged by an incompetent player, but the rest of It looks like someone went over it with a rasp or something.

[lFred]

9 hours ago, martin swan said:

This will absolutely need a patch in the back

 

Come on you are such a killjoy, it's