Looks like Brompton’s Has Closed Their Reference Library

[GeorgeH]

The reference library was getting buggy before they closed it. Now the links don't work.

https://www.bromptons.co

Plus, pictures of individual lots from the Skinner auctions are slowly disappearing from the Bonhams Skinner website.

 

[Shelbow]

Looks like Cozio will be the main reference source going forward then.

I've been thinking about setting up an independent database based on user submissions of instruments they own (vetted as best as possible). But that would probably lead to some issues with data inconsistency and potential conflicts if instruments change hands in the future and people are unhappy about seeing their instrument pictured online.

I shall keep the idea open though.

 

[______]

One can still get there using web dot archive dot org, e.g.:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20210415175345/https://www.bromptons.co/reference/photography/details/violin-by-matthias-albani-circa-1690.html

Prices are hidden (did not try to log in there ), but photos in max resolution are available

[Shelbow]

19 hours ago, ______ said:

One can still get there using web dot archive dot org, e.g.:

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20210415175345/https://www.bromptons.co/reference/photography/details/violin-by-matthias-albani-circa-1690.html

Prices are hidden (did not try to log in there ), but photos in max resolution are available

Good stuff!

[Shelbow]

I had a go yesterday at building a site / database for hosting a library of photos and maker data. I think I can do something viable.

I will add some info using a few instruments I own and see how it looks.

[GeorgeH]

5 hours ago, Shelbow said:

I had a go yesterday at building a site / database for hosting a library of photos and maker data. I think I can do something viable.

MN already has a "photo gallery" but it is never (or rarely) updated or used. It does not show up in Google searches.

One of the advantages of using a specialty auction site database is that the instruments have been vetted by professionals. Having a crowd sourced database would not be a very reliable way to ensure the posted instruments are authentic and useful for reference and comparison. 

Of course, you could have comments for discussing the instruments...

[Shelbow]

That's the thing, there would be some basic vetting of the content and it would be an open platform that would allow people to comment on the submissions.

You can't really guarantee everything on an auction house database is correct either.

I think you would ask the people submitting the data to provide some kind of basic attribution evidence (if they have it), otherwise leave it as speculative on the listing or don't upload it at all.

I don't think anything happens with the Maestronet gallery.

I will provide something that people can submit to if they like. 

If nothing else I will use it for uploading pictures of instruments I own. Each makers section will have a comments section.

I shall post a link tonight.

 

 

[GeorgeH]

36 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

You can't really guarantee everything on an auction house database is correct either.

True. But at least the quality of the modern photos is standardized so one can examine them closely to decide for themselves.

38 minutes ago, Shelbow said:

Each makers section will have a comments section.

That is a slippery slope! 

[Shelbow]

I think it's worth a shot, modern camera phones are very good these days.

I don't think I have many interesting things to show that I own at the moment, but the photos are at least professionally taken.

I look forward to continuing my moderating on another platform 

[Shelbow]

Here is my first draft.

I put up 5 instruments that I own.

I have others I can add in the future.

https://lmia.org.uk/

[Schwartzinc]

1 hour ago, Shelbow said:

Here is my first draft.

I put up 5 instruments that I own.

I have others I can add in the future.

https://lmia.org.uk/

You’ve got my vote! 

[Shelbow]

5 minutes ago, Schwartzinc said:

You’ve got my vote! 

If you have anything to submit, feel free to send it over 

[bungling_amateur]

I was interested to see the line "Rights to all images remain with their respective owners" - for a collaborative project like this I would think some kind of CC licensing would be more appropriate, like Wikipedia or Geograph.

Perhaps violin owners are more possessive of their precious images?

[Blank face]

One might consider that public photos of instruments without proper documentations and certifications can always be object of discussions and possible devaluation as a consequence.

In other words, the Brompton's library as a reference wasn't always reliable in a way which should be desirable.

[Shelbow]

2 hours ago, bungling_amateur said:

I was interested to see the line "Rights to all images remain with their respective owners" - for a collaborative project like this I would think some kind of CC licensing would be more appropriate, like Wikipedia or Geograph.

Perhaps violin owners are more possessive of their precious images?

Well I just built it in a few hours on the way to work and in the evening, so a few things left to iron out. 

I just thought people might feel more inclined to submit instruments if they knew they would retain the rights to their photos. Also to know that we would remove photos from the database if requested by the owners.

I do think that strings owners might be quite protective of photos yes.

Ultimately the database can be for any type of instrument.

Not expecting any great rush of people to submit anything, perhaps no one will come forward. In that case I will just continue to slowly add stuff that I own to it. (what a great excuse to buy more instruments ).

If you see a sudden spike in uploads, then I probably won the lottery!

[Shelbow]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

One might consider that public photos of instruments without proper documentations and certifications can always be object of discussions and possible devaluation as a consequence.

In other words, the Brompton's library as a reference wasn't always reliable in a way which should be desirable.

It's certainly possible, that's why it would be good if submissions have some kind of accompanying documentation or some other evidence to support the attribution. The options to provide this info are in the submission form.

I expect this issue to be mainly for owners of bowed stringed instruments, most other instruments classes are probably OK in this regards.

You can't 100% rely on any data even if it comes with certificates, attributions change all the time. Even Museum databases are riddled with errors.

All you can do is present the information in the most open and honest way possible and open it up for further discussion.

This might put people off from the violin world (and that's completely fine), but there are lots of other instruments out there that would be nice to have in a reference library.

Lets' see how it goes, I'm not expecting much but it's there now if people are interested. I am happy to put things that I own there in any case.

 

[IBK]

You might want to consider an add on feature for unlabeled, attributions,  mis-labeled instruments for the purpose of discussion and opinion. Tarisio's Cozio archive has eliminated those that were included when Mr. Margolis started the archive.

[Shelbow]

3 hours ago, IBK said:

You might want to consider an add on feature for unlabeled, attributions,  mis-labeled instruments for the purpose of discussion and opinion. Tarisio's Cozio archive has eliminated those that were included when Mr. Margolis started the archive.

I'll just put a section for unknown instruments as and when they come along. Either by country if maker is not known but origin is or into a completely unknown section if no info is available.

Early days...

[Shelbow]

Well I received the first submission and I haven't really talked about it anywhere other than this thread, so I guess that is a good start.