How to make violin sound "fuller"?

[szuper_bojler]

Hey guys, basically title.

I went to lesson yesterday and showed my teacher my violin along with the new bridge I carved. After she played on it a bit, she said that it sounded very sweet and clean, but kinda lacked a bit of "fullness and richness". And after hearing her play on her own instrument, I agreed.

Is there anyway I can adjust the violin to make it sound a bit "fuller"? I think I have a pretty good setup at this point, with PI strings and a good quality bridge. I tinkered with the soundpost a bit and managed to get the violin sounding a bit more mellow, but not "fuller" or "richer". 

She does play on a Vuillaume, so I don't expect to get exactly the same sound as her violin, but wanted to improve my violin a bit.

[deans]

"sweet and clean" is a description that a lot of people look for in a violin. For some people a "full" sound comes off as muddy. Anyway enjoy it as it is if its functioning well, and over time maybe you'll find an instrument that suits your taste better, and somebody else who may prefer yours.

[Davide Sora]

31 minutes ago, szuper_bojler said:

She does play on a Vuillaume, so I don't expect to get exactly the same sound as her violin, but wanted to improve my violin a bit.

What strings does she use? The first thing I would try is to put the same strings, it is not certain that it will work but there is a good chance of getting close to the sound and response that the player is used to.

[Nick Allen]

These matters are so subjective and up to individual taste. 

Almost all of the time, the verbage is hard to transfer because we all have a different interpretation as far as sound goes in relation to specific terms. 

As Davide said, I'd first check what strings she has. 

[szuper_bojler]

1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

What strings does she use? The first thing I would try is to put the same strings, it is not certain that it will work but there is a good chance of getting close to the sound and response that the player is used to.

I think she has Evahs? Not entirely sure, but the windings on it seems to be green and black, so that's probably it. I'll try them once my PI dies, which probably wouldn't happen for a while haha

That said, I'm also a bit worried about the longevity of the Evahs. I'm on a budget and won't want to have a string that dies in a couple weeks. Are there any more long-lasting strings that are kinda like Evahs? I've heard good things about Dynamos and Rondo golds, that they are a bit more complex than PIs, but with the same focused tone. Are those good potential options?

[Don Noon]

Trying simple things is a reasonable recommendation, but my best bet would be that your violin was built that way, and any major sound improvement is unlikely without major changes to the way it was originally made.  Not something to be undertaken lightly or without experience, unless your violin is of little value to start with... and not something to be undertaken just on the word of someone on the internet.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Nick Allen said:

These matters are so subjective and up to individual taste. 

Almost all of the time, the verbage is hard to transfer because we all have a different interpretation as far as sound goes in relation to specific terms. 

Agreed.

3 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Trying simple things is a reasonable recommendation, but my best bet would be that your violin was built that way, and any major sound improvement is unlikely without major changes to the way it was originally made.  Not something to be undertaken lightly or without experience, unless your violin is of little value to start with... and not something to be undertaken just on the word of someone on the internet.

Also agreed.

[Brian in Texas]

Just to keep it real, it's gonna be pretty hard to compete with a Vuillaume, sound-wise.

Apart from changing strings and re-hairing your bow, which you should probably do if it's been a good while since you've had both of those done, you might consider taking your instrument to a professional luthier to adjust the soundpost. They do move and shift over time, and if it's not quite in the optimal position, even half a millimeter of adjustment can make a drastic difference in sound.

[Marcus London]

Dominants if you’re on a budget. Low tension so will be totally different sound to the modern ‘shriekers’. Worth a try. 

[Davide Sora]

3 hours ago, szuper_bojler said:

I think she has Evahs? Not entirely sure, but the windings on it seems to be green and black, so that's probably it. I'll try them once my PI dies, which probably wouldn't happen for a while haha

That said, I'm also a bit worried about the longevity of the Evahs. I'm on a budget and won't want to have a string that dies in a couple weeks. Are there any more long-lasting strings that are kinda like Evahs? I've heard good things about Dynamos and Rondo golds, that they are a bit more complex than PIs, but with the same focused tone. Are those good potential options?

The PI, Rondò or Dynamo are all excellent strings that may be worth the try. Mounting the same strings was only if you wanted to have an opinion from that violinist comparing it to her violin, eliminating the string factor. But if the violin is not for her, the best way is to get the opinion of 10 other violinists and see if they confirm the judgment of the first. The result may surprise you.

That said, Evah Pirazzi (preferably Gold) are great tone strings, a favorite of many violinists. Durability can be an issue, but that depends on how much you play, and no string is immune to tone deterioration after a while.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Plan A:   After trying all of the above good suggestions you could try the traditional method used on many famous old Italian violins to make them sound better:  take the top off an thin it about 0.1mm and glue it back on to see if it sounds "fuller" or more "rich".  If this didn't help much keep on repeating this until you're satisfied and stop when further improvements don't happen.

Plan B:   Skip plan A and buy a violin which you like better.

Plan C:    Skip plan A and B to save money and just play your violin more.  It's sort of like wine making.  The more you drink your own stuff the better it tastes.

[LCF]

1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Plan A:   After trying all of the above good suggestions you could try the traditional method used on many famous old Italian violins to make them sound better:  take the top off an thin it about 0.1mm and glue it back on to see if it sounds "fuller" or more "rich".  If this didn't help much keep on repeating this until you're satisfied and stop when further improvements don't happen.

Plan B:   Skip plan A and buy a violin which you like better.

Plan C:    Skip plan A and B to save money and just play your violin more.  It's sort of like wine making.  The more you drink your own stuff the better it tastes.

Plan D: make it sound more full by pouring wine in to fill it up then pouring wine in to fill yourself up. 

[Niko Luthieria]

Mr LCF looks like he is full of wine already.

[Michael Darnton]

21 hours ago, szuper_bojler said:

I think I have a pretty good setup at this point,

That's the weakest link in this chain.

[Bill Yacey]

Let's back up for a moment. Did you say you made the bridge, or just fit a commercially made bridge? If the bridge is made or left too thick, it can certainly produce the sound you describe.

The extra mass acts as a self mute. I would explore this first, before messing with sound post placement, strings, etc.

[szuper_bojler]

55 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

Let's back up for a moment. Did you say you made the bridge, or just fit a commercially made bridge? If the bridge is made or left too thick, it can certainly produce the sound you describe.

The extra mass acts as a self mute. I would explore this first, before messing with sound post placement, strings, etc.

I fitted the bridge myself, and made a post about it earlier, and did some refinement since. I *think* I've done a decent job? But I think I'll need to go to an actual luthier to check my job, and maybe provide some feedback. Good point though, I'll probably need to double check the weight of the bridge. 

[Victor Roman]

On 2/7/2025 at 7:22 PM, szuper_bojler said:

Is there anyway I can adjust the violin to make it sound a bit "fuller"?

I do not know about the "adjust" aspect.

For some violins fuller in a small room goes into the opposite from distance / large room. But you can get a "fuller" tone by using high tension strings and bowing slower and with more pressure. East European school, in other words. Works 100%.  But then, if your violin sounds sweet and clean I would use it as it is- easier on the ear. Intonation wise. Important point here is that the distance you hear a specific violin from and the hall it is played in maters a lot. Fifty-some years ago I was in an orchestra and we played Bruch with Ferras. From where I was sitting it seemed a disaster - his tone was very weak and somehow screechy. Meanwhile, the public thought the violin is being....amplified.

[Spelman]

Sounds like you are wanting a more expensive fiddle

[M Alpert]

3 hours ago, szuper_bojler said:

I fitted the bridge myself, and made a post about it earlier, and did some refinement since. I *think* I've done a decent job? But I think I'll need to go to an actual luthier to check my job, and maybe provide some feedback. Good point though, I'll probably need to double check the weight of the bridge. 

Yes I bet you need an experienced luthier to check it!

[Alto Ego]

Since you’re on a budget, regraduating the instrument, or buying a new one, are probably not options. You can only adjust, change, and tweak the following:

1) Bridge. Have a pro make you one and compare it with the one you made.

2) Sound post adjustment.

3) Strings as noted in previous posts.

4) Tailpieces and tail guts. Some swear by harp-style and kevlar tail guts. YMMV.

5) Rehair your bow and play around with different rosins. Again, YMMV.

6) Make sure you’re not playing with 4 fine tuners. And you may want to try a different fine tuner for your E-string. Maybe titanium, or a Hill/English-style one?

7) Practice, practice, practice! If Evahs last more than 3 months, then you’re not playing enough  

[Andreas Preuss]

On 2/7/2025 at 6:22 PM, szuper_bojler said:

Hey guys, basically title.

I went to lesson yesterday and showed my teacher my violin along with the new bridge I carved. After she played on it a bit, she said that it sounded very sweet and clean, but kinda lacked a bit of "fullness and richness". And after hearing her play on her own instrument, I agreed.

Is there anyway I can adjust the violin to make it sound a bit "fuller"? I think I have a pretty good setup at this point, with PI strings and a good quality bridge. I tinkered with the soundpost a bit and managed to get the violin sounding a bit more mellow, but not "fuller" or "richer". 

She does play on a Vuillaume, so I don't expect to get exactly the same sound as her violin, but wanted to improve my violin a bit.

So if your teacher wouldn’t have said anything, you’d be happy? 

[szuper_bojler]

32 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

So if your teacher wouldn’t have said anything, you’d be happy? 

Eh, I guess it's more that I can tell the difference was pretty stark when she played her violin and mine side by side. Alone it sounded fine to my year, though, but it's hard not to feel like it could be more rich and full sounding. 

[szuper_bojler]

1 hour ago, Alto Ego said:

1) Bridge. Have a pro make you one and compare it with the one you made.

 

Haha I've already spent a bit on bridge making tools, so kind of don't want to spend $250 more to get a new bridge. Though I'll ask my local luthier to adjust it for me, if he's willing to do that. 

[Andreas Preuss]

9 hours ago, szuper_bojler said:

Eh, I guess it's more that I can tell the difference was pretty stark when she played her violin and mine side by side. Alone it sounded fine to my year, though, but it's hard not to feel like it could be more rich and full sounding. 

So now you know the difference between an average violin and a really good one. What skilled luthiers do with the type of violin you own is to make it work best WITH its own characteristics.
 

Trying to convert it acoustically into something else is impossible unless you alter fundamentally its structure and this could also include alterations of the plate arching(s). 

[Don Noon]

5 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Trying to convert it acoustically into something else is impossible unless you alter fundamentally its structure and this could also include alterations of the plate arching(s). 

Altering the arching is usually only done to restore the shape of very valuable old violins that have distorted over time. It's a big job.  Regraduating the thickness is far less demanding and can be effective for student instruments that are often overly thick, but not something acceptable for valuable instruments.

This is one example of a beefy German factory student violin that I regraduated several years ago.  Unfortunately I don't have all of the details of thickness, only that the original top with bar was 82g.  I probably took out 10g of wood or more.

I do have before/after spectral plots of a bowed semitone scale.  The results are typical... primarily power gain in the lower frequencies, but some in the upper frequencies as well.  I think this would generally fit the description of "fuller".  Thinning can be overdone to become excessively low-end oriented, or "tubby".

Too bad I don't have a "before" video, but here it is after regrad: