Violin bow restauration

[Niclas Strandberg]

Hi guys!

I am currently restoring a violin bow which looked very nice under all oxid and dirt! It have some features that I’m not familiar with so I’m very curious if some of you can tell me something about 

no labels, marking except some romen carved under leather/thread area. The frog has some nice and good looking carvings and corners and the nut screw is little special. Underslide in silver as everything in metal. Who made bows with underslides in silver? Is the nut pointing to out a special maker? And finally how to determine if pernambuco or Brazil wood?

I think the bow is around 1900?

please advice

[David Burgess]

I think that the head looks quite nice.

[Brad Dorsey]

The metal fittings of your bow are not silver.  They are “nickel silver,” also known as “maillechort,” which is made of copper and nickel, but no silver.  I occasionally see bows with this type of metal “underslide” attached to the sticks.  I don’t know who made them, but I expect they are German.  Around 1900 sounds right.

[Chamberlain]

That’s a nice restoration project! It’s interesting. Wondering if the silver bottom liner was original or added later? Could it have been meant as a protector or to reinforce something on that section of the stick? I think I might have a similar shaped adjuster button on a bow. 

[GeorgeH]

The old music catalogs show lots of imported trade bow with "fancy" buttons like yours.

I assume that the metal liner under the frog is a repair. It looks like the thumb pad was cut back to install it. And with the pin where it is located, it does not look like it would be very comfortable under the thumb to play.

[Brad Dorsey]

1 hour ago, Chamberlain said:

…Wondering if the silver bottom liner was original or added later?…

Original.  My assumption is that these were put on bow handles to provide a low-friction/low-wear surface for the frog the slide on.

[GeorgeH]

34 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Original.  My assumption is that these were put on bow handles to provide a low-friction/low-wear surface for the frog the slide on.

Maybe you're right. I never have seen one like that in any catalogs in Erhardt. Seems like an odd-solution to a non-existent problem and doesn't look very attractive nor comfortable. 

It would be interesting to see a picture of the mortise under the frog.

[Niclas Strandberg]

Thank you all! I will ad some pictures later showing the frog detached. The reason I thought the Underslide material to be silver was the oxidation. Almost black. I do not know if the nickel/silver oxides that way, it’s possible!  The frog and its metal plate between frog and stick also look as silver and it have a rond( halfcirkel) out cut. The leather piece that originally was mounted covers the forward part of the Underslide approx 5-8 mm and it didn’t effect the feeling when holding it. 
I post new pictures tomorrow (or late this evening)

how to determine the wood? Anyone?

[Blank face]

As it was written before, it’s a bow from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach cottage industry around 1900, imitating a Vuillaume slide with some „ fancy“ features.

Because Pernambuco and Brasilwood means in some regions the same species Paubrasilia echinata it’s better to say it is from Bois d‘abeille (French) or beeswood, manilkara bidentata. In German Brasilholz, but the term is misunderstandable in other languages.

These bows we’re almost always mounted with nickel/Alpaka/Neusilber/maillechort, which sometimes can be appear black due to dirt or other residues.

Its somehow interesting that the head is worked with round chamfers similar to those at French „Tourte“ branded Swanhead bows, but the shape is different, so that there‘s no doubt IMO that it’s German. Also the frog with the exaggerated wide edges is typical for this origin.

[Brad Dorsey]

16 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

…I occasionally see bows with this type of metal “underslide” attached to the sticks…

Here’s one that I just pulled out of my box full of bows not worth keeping:

 

[Chamberlain]

15 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Here’s one that I just pulled out of my box full of bows not worth keeping:

 

Thank you! I would have assumed it was a repair or protection effort and not an original design because of the brutalist armor look of it. That’s one way to get weight in the hand! Maybe it’s like a weighted swing practice golf club. 

[GeorgeH]

35 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Here’s one that I just pulled out of my box full of bows not worth keeping:

Is the stick wood flush with the metal underneath?

I wonder if it was a commercial prefabricated repair kit that was used for repairing a broken stick and/or frog. I can't imagine why anybody would buy a new bow with that monstrosity on it. I can understand why it would be used as a repair device as it would make it simple to replace a frog by tacking on that slide with a pre-fitted frog. 

[fiddlecollector]

They were made like that in a few different models ,ive seen dozens of them.

[Blank face]

4 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

They were made like that in a few different models ,ive seen dozens of them.

Not really rare indeed.

 

5 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

I wonder if it was a commercial prefabricated repair kit that was used for repairing a broken stick and/or frog.

Even these half-circle slides came with a very broad range of diameters, widths and lengths, so that it would be very difficult to produce a "one fits all" repair kit, or adjust it to an individual bow. I'm more inclined to think that the bows had left the shop exactly like this, maybe a far cry of the full-metal bows.

[fiddlecollector]

I thought they were something carried over from early Knopfs. heres a photo courtesy of Tarisio ,supposedly a Christian Wilhelm Knopf 1.

 

[Skeezy Bojangle]

The black could be residue or dirt long term. Get some regular household bleach on a q-tip and test a small area. It reacts very quickly. If it oxidizes black then you got your answer.

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

I thought they were something carried over from early Knopfs. heres a photo courtesy of Tarisio ,supposedly a Christian Wilhelm Knopf 1.

 

Would you think it’s original? I would think that in this case it’s indeed a repair, both the metal slide and the octagonal end ring. The last makes only sense if the stick is weakend by inlaid mop decorations, which are not present at this bow.

Though it could be well that later copyists took such repairs as model for the fancy style.

[Brad Dorsey]

4 hours ago, Skeezy Bojangle said:

…If it oxidizes black then you got your answer.

What would the answer be?  And, what’s the question?

[fiddlecollector]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

Would you think it’s original? I would think that in this case it’s indeed a repair, both the metal slide and the octagonal end ring. The last makes only sense if the stick is weakend by inlaid mop decorations, which are not present at this bow.

Though it could be well that later copyists took such repairs as model for the fancy style.

I had onenot so long back with the whole slide and the ring, but it was just the stick.

[Brad Dorsey]

23 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Is the stick wood flush with the metal underneath?…

No.  The metal is overlaid on top of the wood.  It has pin fasteners at the corners and a scratched Roman numeral like the OP bow.

 

23 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

…I wonder if it was a commercial prefabricated repair kit that was used for repairing a broken stick...

I see no signs that the stick was broken.

 

23 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

…I can't imagine why anybody would buy a new bow with that monstrosity on it….

I can’t imagine why anybody would buy a new “Skylark” violin, but many thousands of people have.

[GeorgeH]

6 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

I can’t imagine why anybody would buy a new “Skylark” violin, but many thousands of people have.

[Brad Dorsey]

On 2/5/2025 at 9:05 PM, GeorgeH said:

…It would be interesting to see a picture of the mortise under the frog.

[Blank face]

15 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

I had onenot so long back with the whole slide and the ring, but it was just the stick.

One would need to look at each example on it's own to analyze if it's original or a later addition. Deutsche Bogenmacher shows CW Knopfs, pearl stripe decorated, both with (2 out of 6) and without a stabilizing octogonal end ring, so it is a somehow unclear feature anyway.

BTW, the Tarisio example you posted looks to me later than CW Knopf, in case the frog is original post 1850. But they said, too, that they don't trust in expertising on unbranded old German bows by themselve.

[Blank face]

41 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

23 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

…I can't imagine why anybody would buy a new bow with that monstrosity on it….

I can’t imagine why anybody would buy a new “Skylark” violin, but many thousands of people have.

Such bows were often sold as a set (violin, case, bow) from the catalogues, so there wasn't much of a choice, was it?

[Niclas Strandberg]

4 hours ago, Blank face said:

Such bows were often sold as a set (violin, case, bow) from the catalogues, so there wasn't much of a choice, was it?

Interesting dialogue between you! Today I had a to many things to do but I promise to take some close up photos tomorrow morning!

hope you can give me more info!

best wishes 

Niclas