Question about French bows.

[fiddlecollector]

A question ive never been certain on is are French bow buttons always pinned in the case of the ones made with octagonal rings or tubing. Ive had French bows on which  the button looks right  and looks like it belongs but no pins and always ones with octagonal rings.

Any comments welcome.

[Chamberlain]

I feel like if I even made an effort to try to pretend that I knew enough to answer this for you I would instantly be cursed with bow bugs and super glued slides! 

[fiddlecollector]

3 minutes ago, Chamberlain said:

I feel like if I even made an effort to try to pretend that I knew enough to answer this for you I would instantly be cursed with bow bugs and superglued slides! 

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, fiddlecollector said:

A question ive never been certain on is are French bow buttons always pinned in the case of the ones made with octagonal rings or tubing. Ive had French bows on which  the button looks right  and looks like it belongs but no pins and always ones with octagonal rings.

Any comments welcome.

What I've found were occasionally Mirecourt trade bows whith buttons pinned only at one ring, usually the outer, but not at the other. Of course they were octogonal, because they didn't twist. But sometimes the unpinned were that loose, so that I simply drilled a small hole and fixed it with an additional pin. It's very probable in my eyes that a lot of repairers had similar ideas, maybe that's the reason why you can find unpinned French buttons now very rarely.

 

[GeorgeH]

@Josh Henry once commented here that pins in buttons were weak signals for assigning the origin of a bow. 

[fiddlecollector]

When you think about it there is really no reason to pin octagonal rings other than possible later wood shrinkage. I come across more swollen wood damage on buttons than shrinkage.( and often cracked rings that seem to start at the pin hole)

[fiddlecollector]

20 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

@Josh Henry once commented here that pins in buttons were weak signals for assigning the origin of a bow. 

Yes particularly after around 1910-1920

[fiddlecollector]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

What I've found were occasionally Mirecourt trade bows whith buttons pinned only at one ring, usually the outer, but not at the other. Of course they were octogonal, because they didn't twist. But sometimes the unpinned were that loose, so that I simply drilled a small hole and fixed it with an additional pin. It's very probable in my eyes that a lot of repairers had similar ideas, maybe that's the reason why you can find unpinned French buttons now very rarely.

 

Yes ive came across alot of single pin Mirecourt buttons. I once asked Raffin many years ago in London, but i think the answer got lost in a mixture of French and English so still no wiser.

[Guido]

I always wondered if a tapered button often seen in French adjusters had anything to do with the need for pins, as they could only slide on/off in one direction.

[Guido]

7 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

@Josh Henry once commented here that pins in buttons were weak signals for assigning the origin of a bow. 

The presence of pins won’t tell you much. But that wasn’t the question.

The absence of pins is still a very strong signal against a French origin. Of course there can be exceptions.

[Guido]

9 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

A question ive never been certain on is are French bow buttons always pinned in the case of the ones made with octagonal rings or tubing. Ive had French bows on which  the button looks right  and looks like it belongs but no pins and always ones with octagonal rings.

Any comments welcome.

If it is so rare and inconsistent, maybe it could be a production oversight and just forgotten.