Guido Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 I don't think I've seen anything like this before. The face with the relatively short and angled ffs seems to ring a bell, but I can't place it. The upper eyes are only 37mm apart. The arching (which would be difficult to see in the photos) is ever so slightly "pinched" in an Amatise way. Blocks are spruce, linings are willow, but not let in. The blocks are also closer to unilateral and certainly don't look anything like Fuessen diaspora. However, rib joints are mitred as they would be with inside mould construction. There is a half-cut pin outside (!) the purfling, which makes me wonder if the lower one is just fully covered. Plate overhang seems large all around both plates. When I first noticed it I though composite, but its fairly consistent all around and on both plates. And here is a possibly decisive clue: I caught a tiny bit of fluorescence in a corner where purfling is not covered by varnish. Any help appreciated.
Guido Posted January 18 Author Report Posted January 18 P.S.: I reached for my volume of "400 Year Violinmaking in the Netherlands" but it didn't solve it for me :-( P.P.S.: LOB is 358
Guido Posted January 18 Author Report Posted January 18 Here is the corner with the black light fluorescence under magnification. It's possible that the tip of the purfling is actually missing and the area filled with glue. Also, the blacks seem to have some grain structure. So, probably no whalebone after all.
Delabo Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 Nice violin. Have you determined what the two pins in the button are made from?
Guido Posted January 18 Author Report Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Delabo said: Nice violin. Have you determined what the two pins in the button are made from? I'd think ebony. Just had another look under magnification and the one through the button looks like the third (!) pin in this place. If it came together with the half-cut one (as they look similar), then the purfling would not be original to the violin.
Delabo Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 3 hours ago, Guido said: I'd think ebony. Just had another look under magnification and the one through the button looks like the third (!) pin in this place. If it came together with the half-cut one (as they look similar), then the purfling would not be original to the violin. Yes, this is what I was thinking about the pins,are they original? And why would someone put a half pin in? Unless of course a full pin is under the purfling? Is the middle purfling strip Maple?
Brad Dorsey Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 26 minutes ago, Delabo said: ...why would someone put a half pin in?... More likely, it was a full pin, and half of it was cut away when the purfling groove was cut.
Delabo Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 6 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said: More likely, it was a full pin, and half of it was cut away when the purfling groove was cut. Ah! thanks.
Blank face Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 13 hours ago, Guido said: I though composite That's my guess, too. The purfling, especially the corner joints, looks quite different from belly to button. Or the bottom started without real purfling and got this (comparatively crude) purfling later. I'm also not aware of any school using original ebony pins, except the later Mnk/Schb cottage industry. The scroll looks old French, are you sure it belongs?
Wood Butcher Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 Any internal pictures? At first, I wondered if the back and ribs may be English, but the mitred rib joints would not fit with that. Scroll may be from another instrument, and a belly made later when it was all put together.
Guido Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 Instrument in hand, I'd say the purfling back and front is consistent. And this is how the story would come together: the back started unpurfeled. Pins in the button and block were added later (as a repair effort). Then the violin got a new top and the back was purfeled with the new top. This is how we end up with a non-original half-cut pin and consistent purfling back and front in a composite violin. If the head belongs is difficult to assess if we don't know what it is that it is attached to. Certainly, the narrow throat looks French, but the volutes maybe not so much. If the back was originally unpurfeled that seems to point more towards English or, you know, the I-word, but maybe less likely French.
Guido Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 9 hours ago, Wood Butcher said: Any internal pictures? At first, I wondered if the back and ribs may be English, but the mitred rib joints would not fit with that. Scroll may be from another instrument, and a belly made later when it was all put together. I was hoping to get away with the description above: close to unilateral spruce blocks, willow linings, not let in.
Delabo Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 Its guess the Guarneri time. Your scroll (left) pegbox walls are too thin, and the walls are to long, and the edges are rounded. No idea what Guarneri scroll we are looking at though. I am sure someone on here will know.
Wood Butcher Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 10 hours ago, Guido said: I was hoping to get away with the description above: close to unilateral spruce blocks, willow linings, not let in. Both the blocks and linings (from these limited views) look much neater than I would have expected, judging them against the exterior.
Blank face Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Delabo said: I am sure someone on here will know. https://ingleshayday.com/notable-sales-instrument/violin-by-giuseppe-guarneri-del-gesu-in-cremona-on-1744/ Not very similar in my eyes. Most probable is a sort of „antique copy“. There‘s a saying if it’s not from any known school it’s from Budapest.
Guido Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 After lots of flicking pages and chasing ideas, the only things that somewhat come close to the OP violin are wonky Italians, like this one.
Wood Butcher Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 19 minutes ago, Guido said: After lots of flicking pages and chasing ideas, the only things that somewhat come close to the OP violin are wonky Italians, like this one. You know well, that far more violins were made outside of Italy than in it. While it is always tempting to think one might have a valuable masterpiece from there, wonky violins were made everywhere. Some due to the techniques used, and some on purpose.
Guido Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Wood Butcher said: You know well, that far more violins were made outside of Italy than in it. While it is always tempting to think one might have a valuable masterpiece from there, wonky violins were made everywhere. Some due to the techniques used, and some on purpose. Of course. And the wonky ones from outside Italy usually don’t make it into any reference books… But it is tempting. The maker of above half cut pin also made narrow throats. See below.
Blank face Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 5 hours ago, Guido said: the wonky ones from outside Italy usually don’t make it into any reference books… I won't be so sure about that.
Guido Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, martin swan said: Is this quite a small violin? 358
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