Regarding the use of Ren Wax

[hnryhouuu]

I know there has been a heated debate whether ren wax is good or not, but im here mainly to ask if you need to use any kind of polish (Italian cream, hill polish) BEFORE applying ren wax to give that shiny, museum artefact like finish to it?

also, I would like to confirm if ren wax does not build up, and when you reapply the wax its gonna redissolve and get evenly distributed?

lastly, could I use even wax for fittings also? As my old tempel pegs and tailpiece has lost most of its shine, I was wondering if u could use ren wax to get that shine again.

Thanks!

[joerobson]

Please clarify..."Ren wax"?

Thank you.

on we go

Joe

[fiddlecollector]

renaissance wax

[joerobson]

3 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

renaissance wax

I suspected that.

Number of years ago a friend was packing up for the Oberlin Makers Workshop.  She filled a plastic film container (you remember those...) with Renaissance Wax.

When she unpacked her tools the film container was collapsed and partially decomposed (melted?).

We have not used or recommended it since.

on we go,

Joe

[David Burgess]

6 hours ago, hnryhouuu said:

I know there has been a heated debate whether ren wax is good or not, but im here mainly to ask if you need to use any kind of polish (Italian cream, hill polish) BEFORE applying ren wax to give that shiny, museum artefact like finish to it?

I've never managed to get a super-high shine with ren wax, but I also question whether a high shine is an accurate "museum artifact" type finish.

6 hours ago, hnryhouuu said:

also, I would like to confirm if ren wax does not build up, and when you reapply the wax its gonna redissolve and get evenly distributed?

I think that previous applications are likely to dissolve and redistribute due to the solvent incorporated in the wax, if one slathers the new coating on heavily enough. Otherwise, Stoddard solvent can be used to remove prior applications.

6 hours ago, hnryhouuu said:

lastly, could I use even wax for fittings also? As my old tempel pegs and tailpiece has lost most of its shine, I was wondering if u could use ren wax to get that shine again.

I'd probably just french polish those.

[David Burgess]

2 hours ago, joerobson said:

Number of years ago a friend was packing up for the Oberlin Makers Workshop.  She filled a plastic film container (you remember those...) with Renaissance Wax.

When she unpacked her tools the film container was collapsed and partially decomposed (melted?).

We have not used or recommended it since.

Film containers are probably not designed to be very resistant to mineral solvents over the long term. If one put a big lump of ren wax on the surface of a fiddle and left it there for several days, there might be a problem too from extended exposure to the solvent. So much has to do with how a product is used, doesn't it?

In normal use, ren wax is applied in a very thin film, in which the solvent "goes away" pretty quickly.

There is probably nothing that can't be misused on a fiddle, without the risk of messing things up, including a bow.

[hnryhouuu]

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I've never managed to get a super-high shine with ren wax, but I also question whether a high shine is an accurate "museum artifact" type finish.

What is your usual ‘routine’ regarding using ren wax? Just clean off dust with cloth then apply?

 

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

In normal use, ren wax is applied in a very thin film, in which the solvent "goes away" pretty quickly.

And in terms of application, is there any technique that you use? Eg is one coin sized lump enough for the whole violin?

[Brad Dorsey]

1 hour ago, hnryhouuu said:

What is your usual ‘routine’ regarding using [R]en[aissance] wax?…

The few times I have used it, my “routine” was to follow the directions on the container.

It has probably been 10 to 15 years since I have used it.  This fact makes me think that I was not thrilled with the result, but I can’t remember why I wasn’t.

[Violadamore]

4 hours ago, hnryhouuu said:

What is your usual ‘routine’ regarding using ren wax? Just clean off dust with cloth then apply?

 

And in terms of application, is there any technique that you use? Eg is one coin sized lump enough for the whole violin?

Ren Wax isn't for violins and other varnished wooden musical instruments.  In fact, it might damage the finish, interfere with repairs, or mess up the tone (it dries to a hard shell).  IMHO, it's best as a protective coating for metal objects on display that might rust, tarnish, or corrode from exposure to the atmosphere, but whose exhibition would be interfered with if you kept them protectively oiled (as they would be for use).  Swords and suits of armor, antique tools, and firearms come to mind as examples.  

As to how much you apply to things that it is designed to preserve and conserve, think "thinly applied from the can with a cotton swab", not "coin sized lumps".

The stuff is actually a specialty product for curatorial use, not some kind of fancy car polish.  For fiddles, leave it alone. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax

[hnryhouuu]

2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

The stuff is actually a specialty product for curatorial use, not some kind of fancy car polish.  For fiddles, leave it alone. 

Then what would you suggest for polish of fiddles?

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, hnryhouuu said:

Then what would you suggest for polish of fiddles?

Clean them with a soft cloth or microfiber cloth after use.  Other than that, nothing. 

[fiddlecollector]

I think  its very useful stuff but i wouldnt use it on a valuable or otherwise old instrument/ any instrument with cracks . It may be easy to remove with mineral spirits which doesnt usually affect varnishes as long as the surface is impervious  but if there are cracks or undetected cracks then it would easily get washed into the cracks whilst removing it causing unforseen problems for repairs etc...

[FoxMitchell]

Please do not 'polish' your instruments!

Just wipe them clean after playing, with some microfiber cloth.

If it's getting crusty, a luthier can easily clean everyday crud, but the moment you start putting chemicals on it, you will likely harm the instrument and make our lives more difficult.

Do not use wax, silicone, oil, anything! Violins aren't furniture that you can shine up with some Old English.

[hnryhouuu]

1 hour ago, fiddlecollector said:

I think  it’s very useful stuff but i wouldnt use it on a valuable or otherwise old instrument/ any instrument with cracks . It may be easy to remove with mineral spirits which doesnt usually affect varnishes as long as the surface is impervious  but if there are cracks or undetected cracks then it would easily get washed into the cracks whilst removing it causing unforseen problems for repairs etc...

Should I use mineral oils to wipe the surface first before using the wax?

[bardia parmid]

My question may seem a bit silly, but is it possible to add a small amount of Nescafe to the Obel varnish and mix it and use its color in the violin varnish? Is the Nescafe color durable and does not lose its color over time? Because the biggest factor in fading the color of violins is UV rays. For example, a mixture of turmeric with alcohol gives us a very, very beautiful yellow color, but this color does not last at all and the color disappears very quickly.

[Mark Norfleet]

2 hours ago, hnryhouuu said:

Should I use mineral oils to wipe the surface first before using the wax?

No!

Some solvents, such as the previously mentioned Stoddard Solvent can be fine and good, but should always be tested in a discrete area first.  Even then one must proceed with caution as the coating on an older instrument will be different on different parts of the instrument.  Really all of this work should be left to someone who is experienced with such things.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

19 hours ago, David Burgess said:

In normal use, ren wax is applied in a very thin film, in which the solvent "goes away" pretty quickly.

There is probably nothing that can't be misused on a fiddle, without the risk of messing things up, including a bow.

To expand on David's and @Mark Norfleet Mark's comments:

I have the same tin I acquired more than 20 years ago. I do occasionally use it, as a thin protective coating can protect the varnish from sweat and rosin build up.  The fact that my 20 some odd year old tin is still more than half full is a testament for the amount used per application as well as frequency of use. Caution is required when introducing a wax to an instrument.  It's a "tool" like other tools, and should be used appropriately and/or in an effort to conserve. As Violadamore mentioned, it was initially developed (for the British Museum as I recall.. but I haven't read the tin for a long time) for metal objects (like armor).

Although I rarely encounter varnishes that are sensitive to the stuff, I always test in a small non-critical area with a Q-tip before application on an unfamiliar instrument.  I also test Stoddard/Mineral Spirits in a small non critical area.

It's not meant to shine up a fiddle.  It's designed to protect objects with a thin film.

A very small amount of Ren-wax goes a long way. Just wiping a cloth gently over the surface of the wax usually covers a good % of an application.

I avoid application to unsealed (or questionably sealed) cracks, purling inlays and other critical joints. 

Application to certain areas of healthy plates and/or C bout ribs can reduce rosin buildup in problem areas for a time.

Application on an upper treble bout rib or lower bass bout can slow damage to the varnish due to hand or neck wear... delaying other interventions (retouching, plastic sheet barrier).

It's easily removed with a small amount of stoddard/mineral spirits on a cloth.