Is this a real Collin Mezin on eBay for cheap

[Luthierintraining]

Found this really nice Collin Mezin violin on eBay it looks like French work but I have never seen a Guarneri model like this. The auction started low at 0.01 thinking about buying it. It also comes with a certificate from a violin shop called Atlantic strings does Anybody know if that’s a reputable shop. 
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/205159201349?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=o5DKzrUhSfy&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=o5DKzrUhSfy&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Faren4511]

I might bid just to have that Riboni Crocodile Violin Case. 

[StringsTeacherES]

All I can say is that it truly looks like a twin of my Collin Mezin, fwiw

[StringsTeacherES]

On 12/12/2024 at 6:13 PM, StringsTeacherES said:

All I can say is that it truly looks like a twin of my Collin Mezin, fwiw

One thing though, I was checking out this violin again and the purfling on the back looks a little different at the C Bouts, particularly the back Treble side?  The "beestings" on my Collin-Mezzin point into the C on all four sides front and back.  Here's Mine:

Here's the Ebay Violin:

I don't know, I'm not an expert but they do look different to me.  Also the corners look different as well.  

[martin swan]

Well spotted - this purfling detail is something you'd expect to see on pretty much any French violin, even lesser Mirecourt trade instruments ...

 

[schuy]

On 12/16/2024 at 1:46 PM, martin swan said:

Well spotted - this purfling detail is something you'd expect to see on pretty much any French violin, even lesser Mirecourt trade instruments ...

 

Interesting, are you saying all French violins will have purfling that points into the C like shown above on his Collin Mezin? That is a fact worth knowing if true. And does that mean the eBay one (which went for close to $4 grand!) was fake? Or am I missing your point entirely? Thanks :-) 

[martin swan]

3 hours ago, schuy said:

Interesting, are you saying all French violins will have purfling that points into the C like shown above on his Collin Mezin? That is a fact worth knowing if true. And does that mean the eBay one (which went for close to $4 grand!) was fake? Or am I missing your point entirely? Thanks :-) 

It's not a silver bullet but it's pretty reliable. Some Mirecourt models with very long corners don't have this feature, but it's an aspect of Stradivari style which found its way into the majority of French making.

In the case of the OP violin, I don't like much about it - just looks like a humdrum violin in a fancy case. I don't believe the signature is original.

 

[schuy]

Thank you, excellent info as always. Sad if someone paid that much for it, but knowing eBay, it could have been a sham bid by the seller, or maybe (hopefully) the buyer backed out after winning the auction. Out of curiosity, I searched ebay and found this one, which, for a similar price (or less if the seller accepts such an offer), seems like a better deal. Bad photos, but it seems more likely to be the real thing to my uneducated eyes... I'd be curious to get some better opinions if anyone cares to comment.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166675953095?_skw=Collin+Mezin&itmmeta=01JGSQ1V4GQ3EJYVAZB3JC7PEQ&hash=item26cea935c7:g:j78AAOSwQ0Rl8Ij2&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKmKyDY1gv4QT17KFs6%2FltACgvIhjyKfRuQCdfs4McTc1E%2F%2BMB7SzbZNr%2BSLq1hdYy28duzHiYsq8RiN0bgvjmufOeRxbTRenQWCMfreCXpcUJYsFoccoc69%2FsKvNGMl4OHqmOvvoKHUuhzesjsNPe2La3oCjkF%2FSc%2Budux54FAacTBHfe4MXO6mzlt8vQEeGYX1ieHLocBGRSTp7EZW5yID2fHqMH%2BVKIW9z7lQgczbwuM6zogJTJQ1QThYv58cJtg%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6qyh7eGZQ

[martin swan]

For me this is a 20th century Mirecourt violin bought in and finished by Collin-Mézin. The date of 1900 isn't the date of manufacture, which I would say was quite a bit later, rather it's the date of an "Exposition Unverselle" at which the firm won a medal. I think the date on the label is 1920.

[schuy]

17 hours ago, martin swan said:

For me this is a 20th century Mirecourt violin bought in and finished by Collin-Mézin. The date of 1900 isn't the date of manufacture, which I would say was quite a bit later, rather it's the date of an "Exposition Unverselle" at which the firm won a medal. I think the date on the label is 1920.

That makes sense. Suddenly that price tag is looking kinda high... haha.

[GoPractice]

On 1/6/2025 at 1:04 AM, schuy said:

That makes sense. Suddenly that price tag is looking kinda high... haha.

Labels and pricing of CM instruments could be discussed further, like copies of Sartory bows. So many Strad and Tourte copies, but Pajeot and Roccas are far more specific. Are there costs to consider?

I grew up in an era where fake labels were placed on fairly excellent instruments possibly made by lesser well- known makers. Faking now is certainly different in the past, but maker knowledge is one thing. Understanding the value of an instrument for the way it plays is another. I had friends and students purchase " fakes " that were obvious " real " instruments by other, now better known makers. The value of the instrument might go up, but the actual playing experience is still locked in.

Regrads of either set of instruments is another. Older, now nearing century old instruments of the later CM creations...

And that is another layer of how a player might discover how it presents to a player vs the audience. For another day.

CM labeled instruments and I have played on almost a thousand at this point, I am sure, are interesting. They are very fine transitional instruments. I see post and pre instruments and though the value of the earlier instruments are higher, they sound how? And a mislabeled instrument at 15% of the cost plays well?

The instrument type is a credible placeholder. Price tags aside, discussions on value are another.

I spend half days and days and complete weekends on evaluating instruments when the time is available. This past holiday was a Fender amp. One of the best I heard, modded, and for the price a steal. 

I bemoan visiting venues before performances in my late age, but was excited in my youth. Certainly to try the piano. The pianist, the instrument. The string player the hall. An amp in the studio is cake.

Back to the CMs. There are so many made with a variety of characteristics. A lady I admire, my age, who made different choices has a fake CM. I told her. The more experienced me would have better explained the factors. Plays like from heaven. Choices. Large home. Smart Kids. Not so helpful brother. Me: no kids, no home, likes expensive bows... not rationalizing, I told her that the instrument was not real. I did tell her that her ear and heart was locked in. She made the correct choices in this market.

Her other French instrument, was significantly more valuable, label real. Very nice instrument but dull. Played nothing like this CM fake.

Collecting is one thing, playing another, and performing another. It matters if one gets to try and evaluate the instrument.

Not advocating for Oddone and Gadda copies among so many, but there are interesting instruments out there. As players, know and understand your needs. " Collectors " do the same sleuthing fakes. 

[GoPractice]

Bench copies, reproductions, anthems and tributes amount to labor and materials. 

There are experts and originalists out there who known more than the rest of us who make remarkable instruments. 

I like baggage. My home is full of it. Understanding, is what makes it intellectually valuable.

[schuy]

Interesting thoughts, GoPractice. Another thing that continues to baffle me with regards to the interplay between instrument value, vs. sound, and playability, is the importance of setup.

I constantly see people who will pick up a violin or a bow, play with it for a few minutes, and definitively declare that they have determined the way the instrument sounds and plays, compare it to their own favorite, criticize it for sounding "dull" or "weak" or whatever else, and never once mention or seem to even consider that, by moving the soundpost slightly, changing the bridge or strings, adjusting the neck, rehairing a bow, etc. the instrument might take on entirely new characteristics. 

[Tiennou74]

Does this one look real?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/196932482081

I compared the signatures and they look close but not exactly the same