F Peccatte violin vs viola bows

[Guido]

Did F Peccatte make much of a difference between violin and viola bows when it comes to the frog?

I.e. are the viola frogs bigger, wider, longer, higher, or none of that?

I'm asking because I have a bare iron wood stick (45g) that'll be about 70g as a complete bow, but the head mortice is fairly narrow and will probably only want to have a violin amount of hair. Seems to call for a violin size frog...?

[Brad Dorsey]

According to "L'Archet," the heights of his violin bow frogs are 20 to 20.5 millimeters, and the heights of his viola bow frogs are 21.5 to 22.5 millimeters; the lengths of his violin bow frogs are 44.5 to 46.2 millimeters, and the lengths of his viola bow frogs are 47.8 millimeters.  The widths are not given.

[fiddlecollector]

He made a lot of bows that could be considered heavy violin or light viola bows. What is the head height??? With or without tip plate?

[Guido]

On 11/13/2024 at 9:35 PM, Brad Dorsey said:

According to "L'Archet," the heights of his violin bow frogs are 20 to 20.5 millimeters, and the heights of his viola bow frogs are 21.5 to 22.5 millimeters; the lengths of his violin bow frogs are 44.5 to 46.2 millimeters, and the lengths of his viola bow frogs are 47.8 millimeters.  The widths are not given.

Great info, thanks. Have had this book on my wish list for far too long...

[Guido]

On 11/13/2024 at 11:27 PM, fiddlecollector said:

He made a lot of bows that could be considered heavy violin or light viola bows. What is the head height??? With or without tip plate?

Not sure how the measurement of head height is defined. I show a photo of how I measured it to the underside of the stick to come to about 16mm.

Also, I attach a photo of comparing the mortice to an average violin bow (right).

Still not sure if I should fit a violin or a viola frog to this stick. Or find a viola frog with a relatively narrow hair band.

[fiddlecollector]

Looks like a violin bow,the head height is usually to the top of the stick. The head mortice cut out in the original tip plate was probably curved into the top (toward tip ,widest points) corners originally,so the hair mortice would have been slightly wider than at present.

I have two F Pecatte bows here that would be classed as violin bows or particularly the exotic one ,heavy violin bow. : They werent really standardized as such back then and  ive never personally had a F Peccatte bow with a frog as long as 47.8mm as Brad quoted from L'archet.

The top exotic wood stick is 47gms for the stick alone and the lower ironwood stick is 43  gms . Both bow buttons/screws weigh exactly 4.6 gms. the exotic bow frog weighs 8.8 gms and the ironwood one 8.5 gms.

the frogs measure exotic woodstick one: 45.71 x 20.5 x12.95 and the ironwood one : 44.70x 20.22x12.15.

The head heights including tip plates are exotic one 23.53 and ironwood one 23.15.

[Guido]

8 hours ago, fiddlecollector said:

Looks like a violin bow,the head height is usually to the top of the stick. The head mortice cut out in the original tip plate was probably curved into the top (toward tip ,widest points) corners originally,so the hair mortice would have been slightly wider than at present.

I have two F Pecatte bows here that would be classed as violin bows or particularly the exotic one ,heavy violin bow. : They werent really standardized as such back then and  ive never personally had a F Peccatte bow with a frog as long as 47.8mm as Brad quoted from L'archet.

The top exotic wood stick is 47gms for the stick alone and the lower ironwood stick is 43  gms . Both bow buttons/screws weigh exactly 4.6 gms. the exotic bow frog weighs 8.8 gms and the ironwood one 8.5 gms.

the frogs measure exotic woodstick one: 45.71 x 20.5 x12.95 and the ironwood one : 44.70x 20.22x12.15.

The head heights including tip plates are exotic one 23.53 and ironwood one 23.15.

Thanks a million. This should settle it. My head height is even a little shy of 23mm.

What seems light are your frogs; and between those and a tinsel or silk lapping, the weight estimate for my bow can easily come down from over 70g to under 65g :-)

Only other thing, I was hoping @martin swan might chime in on dimensions/ measurements given he has an iron wood viola example on offer.

[martin swan]

8 hours ago, Guido said:

Only other thing, I was hoping @martin swan might chime in on dimensions/ measurements given he has an iron wood viola example on offer.

I don't think it's very helpful as it's a Francois Peccatte Workshop bow. Only Bernard Millant could tell us what he meant by that but it's not a viable example of the work of Francois Peccatte.

However, frog height is 21mm, width 12-12.5, length 45mm - head height 23-23.5 including the face.