Is this violin made by Bernard Simon Fendt or a copy

[Martin Qi]

Could anyone help me by giving me some ideas on whether this violin is authentic Bernard Simon Fendt or just a copy?  I am going to buy a violin for my son and have looked into this violin.  I wonder how much I need to pay.  Any ideas and suggestions will help.  Many Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, Martin Qi said:

Could anyone help me by giving me some ideas on whether this violin is authentic Bernard Simon Fendt or just a copy?  I am going to buy a violin for my son and have looked into this violin.  I wonder how much I need to pay.  Any ideas and suggestions will help.  Many Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

That's not a copy of a Fendt, but a violin from the Markneukirchen/Schönbach cottage industry with a randomly glued in copied label.

Real BS Fendts are very expensive and can't be bought for the price of a students violin.

[jacobsaunders]

There is a reference viola from ca.1840 illustrated in the BMVA book “The British violin” on page 170/171. The BVMA viola would suggest that your violin is not a Fendt. Your photos aren’t helpful for identification purposes, and one might suggest you read the pinned thread on how to take “identification” pictures

 

PS: Good morning BF!

[Blank face]

8 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

PS: Good morning BF!

Thanks, a good morning for you, too (though I have lunchtime at the moment)!

Agree that better pictures are necessary for a clear ID, the odds seem to be for an older Mnk/Schb instruments.

[M Alpert]

I would also be suspicious of the neck-scroll joint of the neck graft, it looks like it may be failing...

[Martin Qi]

Thank you very much, everyone.  I know what I should do now.

[Ratcliffiddles]

Interesting comments, with which I wholly disagree.

This violin to me looks English, something close to Betts, and should be looked at more closely in my opinion.

Yes, better pictures also of the scroll, without any funny angles would be good.

 

[martin swan]

8 minutes ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

Interesting comments, with which I wholly disagree.

This violin to me looks English, something close to Betts, and should be looked at more closely in my opinion.

Yes, better pictures also of the scroll, without any funny angles would be good.

 

Haha, I didn't want to stick my neck out but I agree ...

However I don't think it bears much relation to a Bernard Simon Fendt.

 

 

[Dave Slight]

I also think it is English, but not really Fendt, who was a very fine maker.

Better pictures are needed, and OP can you confirm that the back varnish is red, and the top grey/brown in person? 

M. Alpert is correct, it looks like the graft has started to let go, or has been re-glued already, but misaligned

[Ratcliffiddles]

In fact, probably not far off a Furber

[Blank face]

Interesting. I admit that some details, as the purfling, edges, maybe the bottom figure, look well. Though I'm still struggling to find the differences between certain British and good Saxon made violins. I'm usually looking for a one piece top (which this doesn't seem to have, or am I wrong?), a rear pegbox without pronounced "dog's nose", and, of course, a not brownish varnish.

Question would be if the OP has access to the violin for making more photos or if they were taken from an online website?

[Ratcliffiddles]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Interesting. I admit that some details, as the purfling, edges, maybe the bottom figure, look well. Though I'm still struggling to find the differences between certain British and good Saxon made violins. I'm usually looking for a one piece top (which this doesn't seem to have, or am I wrong?), a rear pegbox without pronounced "dog's nose", and, of course, a not brownish varnish.

 

There are plenty of 2 piece fronts in England in the early 19th century. Many more than there are one-piece fronts.

[Blank face]

29 minutes ago, Ratcliffiddles said:

There are plenty of 2 piece fronts in England in the early 19th century. Many more than there are one-piece fronts.

Thanks for the clarification! So I have to revise this my general assumption. What do you think about the OP front? At first sight it looked to me like a mirrored/bookmatched two piece, but now I find it difficult to identify a clear center seam.

[lvlagneto]

4 hours ago, Dave Slight said:

M. Alpert is correct, it looks like the graft has started to let go, or has been re-glued already, but misaligned

If we can't see that the graft is failing, time to retire.  

[lvlagneto]

3 hours ago, Blank face said:

At first sight it looked to me like a mirrored/bookmatched two piece, but now I find it difficult to identify a clear center seam.

It looks bookmatched, but offset for some reason?  There is a join/centerline for sure.

[Guido]

The violin is being offered as an authentic SB Fendt, at about 80% discount vs greedy dealer retail.

Doesn't that sound like an attractive proposition?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/387489508909?itmmeta=01JAYG0VT46W4BCSR78BV51GFQ&hash=item5a382cae2d:g:j8EAAOSwXb9nDjhZ

[lvlagneto]

You get a 50% discount by it being Australian currency.

Here's a profile shot which might be helpful...

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, lvlagneto said:

You get a 50% discount by it being Australian currency.

Here's a profile shot which might be helpful...

Looks as if it has a worm problem at the C rib.

[martin swan]

4 hours ago, Guido said:

The violin is being offered as an authentic SB Fendt, at about 80% discount vs greedy dealer retail.

Doesn't that sound like an attractive proposition?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/387489508909?itmmeta=01JAYG0VT46W4BCSR78BV51GFQ&hash=item5a382cae2d:g:j8EAAOSwXb9nDjhZ

We have a Bernard Simon Fendt for sale at £40,000 or AU$77,950 greedy dealer retail, so the Ebay violin is certainly looking like an attractive proposition, especially given that they're almost identical 

[martin swan]

36 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Looks as if it has a worm problem at the C rib.

and a soundpost crack/patch in the back

[Blank face]

6 minutes ago, martin swan said:

and a soundpost crack/patch in the back

That's as good as obligatory at thin slab cut bottoms.

Possibly caused by a worm channel, too.

[Martin Qi]

Hi everyone,

please see a few more photos below.  The color in the picture below is much closer to the real color.  Hope it helps.

 

 

[Blank face]

42 minutes ago, Martin Qi said:

Now I'm wondering if it isn't rather a Mittenwald/Austrian thing. Also a slab cut bottom is very common there. Can you tell (given you have it at hand) if the lininings are morticed into assymetrical corner blocks?

Though as we've learned from previous threads, a notch in the bottom rib can be found at certain English violins, too. Just the construction of the ribs would be different.

[lvlagneto]

7 hours ago, Blank face said:

Looks as if it has a worm problem at the C rib.

Looks like the scroll was a worm's lunch as well, which might explain the graft pop.

[Martin Qi]

Can we tell who made this violin after we see more pictures?