Some Pricing Questions

[Haowei]

Hello everyone

 Apologize for my awful English. I'm new to this forum and I have some questions about current retail price of antique violins. I find it hard to get the real prices of vintage violins on the web, I try to know what I need for my budget through the auction records of the tarisio, but the price gap between them is just too big (for example, some violins made by Stradivarius can go for 5 million while others can go for 15 million) and its also hard to find dealers who sells the violin I want. So could anyone tell me what is the current retail price of a Nicolo Amati Violin in Mint Condition?(I don't consider buying any violin form an auction) I have a budget maximum of 1.5 million usd and I want to save some for a gold satory bow. And It would be wonderful if someone can tell me ways to find accurate information of antique violin pricing online 

 

Thank you very much

 

 

[jacobsaunders]

Fuchs, A.: Taxe der Streichinstrumente 17. Auflage - Books - now at PAGANINO

[martin swan]

https://www.neuetaxe.com

according to which a fine Nicolo Amati (grand pattern) would be between 1.3 and 3.7 million dollars.

A good gold Sartory is a pretty small add-on at this price range!

I don’t think 1.5M will get you a mint Nicolo Amati unless it’s a small pattern.

 

[Faren4511]

Both Ingles & Hayday, and Bromptoms have a N. Amati in their private sales section for sale, not auction. 

As of October 2024:

https://ingleshayday.com/private-sales-instrument/a-violin-by-nicolo-amati-cremona-circa-1675-80/

https://www.bromptons.co/buying-selling/private-sales/

Nippon has a very small N. Amati for sale:

https://www.nipponviolin.com/en/instrument/detail/vn041/

[Guido]

8 hours ago, martin swan said:

https://www.neuetaxe.com

according to which a fine Nicolo Amati (grand pattern) would be between 1.3 and 3.7 million dollars.

A good gold Sartory is a pretty small add-on at this price range!

I don’t think 1.5M will get you a mint Nicolo Amati unless it’s a small pattern.

 

That's a remarkable difference to the latest Fuchs Taxe (2017), which lists the small pattern at EUR160k-280k; and the large pattern at EUR400k-800k; or USD436k-873k at today's rates.

[Mark Caudle]

7 hours ago, Guido said:

That's a remarkable difference to the latest Fuchs Taxe (2017), which lists the small pattern at EUR160k-280k; and the large pattern at EUR400k-800k; or USD436k-873k at today's rates.

But if you add 7 years at a compound rate of ca. 8% PA on $800k  you will be near what was suggested.

[martin swan]

37 minutes ago, Mark Caudle said:

But if you add 7 years at a compound rate of ca. 8% PA on $800k  you will be near what was suggested.

7 years and a financial climate which has seen a boom in alleged alternative investments..

[matesic]

Ladies, let us depart to the withdrawing room and leave the gentlemen to their business.

[Guido]

Well, I better get busy and revisit my inventory, tripling price tags.

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, Guido said:

Well, I better get busy and revisit my inventory, tripling price tags.

If you have an Amati in top condition and you haven’t updated the price in 7 years then it’s probably a good idea 

But we should clarify that in broad terms Fuchs gives conservative prices which are for instruments in decent condition whereas Neuetaxe gives to prices for instruments in top condition.

We are just trying to answer the OP’s question - I would further stress that auction results are worse than useless.

[Blank face]

Not that it's in any way important for my business, but I'm wondering what's distinguishing the 17th century Amati in decent from top condition. Is it 50% from 55% originality?

[jacobsaunders]

I spent 25 years as a certified court expert (gerichtich Zertifizierte Sachverständiger) and found that one was regularly asked “how much is such and such an instrument is worth”. This is, rather like the OP question, something that one cannot definitively answer. As soon as one or other party asks how one came to whatever answer one did, and one is obliged to substantiate ones answer, the only viable possibility is to find a comparable instrument which was really sold. The problem there is that those prices are generally not available to third party's, except for at auction, and as Martin has already pointed out, auction prices are as a guide almost useless. This leaves one only with the possibility of citing the “Fuchs Taxe”, although even there, I could easily spend all weekend arguing with colleagues where the “Fuchs Taxe” is either too cheap or extortionately expensive. The conclusion after 25 years as a “Sachverständiger” is to avoid having to answer this question

[Blank face]

43 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

This is, rather like the OP question, something that one cannot definitively answer.

Wasn't the original question for a Nicolo Amati in "mint condition"? I'm not sure if this was a serious question, but it would at first require a sort of time machine. Definitively.