Producing Crisp Tone

[Shunyata]

Since carefully following Davide Sora’s work the quality of my builds has increased tremendously.  (Thank you!)

My next to last build was responsive and resonant.  But there is an overall softness or fuzziness to the tone, almost like the resonance is strong but unfocused.  Also there is not a lot of color variation with changing contact point.

My last build was similar but the tone is crystal clear and pure. The resonance is Rich and penetrating without taking anything from the fundamental tone.  Also, there is wide variation in color with contact point, so much so that you need to be careful to keep it under control.

  The problem is that I don’t know exactly what I did to achieve this wonderful new result - except carefully following Davide Sora.  :-)

Can anyone speak to the build details that affect the crispness of tone?

[lvlagneto]

You should know the different variables that could/would have changed between your "next to last" and "last" builds.  It's a shame that you have no idea how you got a favorable result.  It's hard to ask others to guess, since this is a rabbit that many chase.

[Shunyata]

Thank you Ivlagneto.  I am properly “ashamed” of my ignorance.  As I have mentioned before on this forum, I am a rank but enthusiastic amateur… and an attentive student when given the opportunity.
 

Fortunately I am NOT not asking anyone to diagnose my construction technique.  In fact I shared no details of my construction.  (The biggest difference was treating the outside of the violin with casein sealer… whereas I have used Manifio’s gum Arabic sealer in the past.) 
 

Rather I am seeking to understand the construction details that are typically associated with crispness of tone.  
 

Perhaps someone can offer insights on that basis.

[Andreas Preuss]

Generally speaking ‘crispness’ of the sound is perceived from the overtones. To my limited experimental experience it is probably the thing which the hardest to control in the construction. 

[Deo Lawson]

I think this is one area where the player has more influence than the instrument. Speaking as a professional performer and teacher. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding on account of your choice of words. I would say "crispness" is the clarity of the starts and ends of notes and how quickly the string speaks when the bow starts moving.

[Davide Sora]

8 hours ago, Shunyata said:

The biggest difference was treating the outside of the violin with casein sealer… whereas I have used Manifio’s gum Arabic sealer in the past.

I am convinced that casein sealer (especially on spruce) increases the crispiness of the sound, but I have no scientific evidence to support this impression.

[Shunyata]

1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

I am convinced that casein sealer (especially on spruce) increases the crispiness of the sound, but I have no scientific evidence to support this impression.

I suspect you are right.  I had a violin that I took apart and applied casein sealer to the inside… and also replaced the linings.  The difference in tone was significant.  Unfortunately I didn’t take the time to do each step separately and evaluate the impact.  :-)

For others, by “crispness” I mean the purity and clarity of the sustained tone.

[violinsRus]

Without even going into finer build issues like the choice of ground:

Setup, strings, fittings, so many 'small' issues can make a big difference.  New strings often make a big improvement on 'crispness', as I'm sure anyone can tell you.  Even acoustic guitar players! 

[Shunyata]

You are right about strings.  This is why I always put old strings on a violin I am newly evaluating.

The approach to bridge shaping has a big impact too.  On my own instruments, this is relatively constant.  But it is a very significant variable when looking at other instruments.

[GoPractice]

11 hours ago, Shunyata said:

 ( ... )

For others, by “crispness” I mean the purity and clarity of the sustained tone.

It can be difficult to discuss certain aspects of an instrument, even with shop people. 

Crisp can be associated with staccatos, in terms of attack and duration of the sonics. Or feel. It can be a perception from the brain to the fingers to the ears. Defining might be difficult. A lot of lessons or coaching is the process of defining our experiences. 

Cloudy or messy, the opposite of clear? tone sometimes takes awhile to settle in. Set ups might take days, weeks, months and years to achieve a particular quality. At some shops, I have taken delivery of dozens of violins, nearly identical, but still sort by appearance and then sometimes weight. If they look, spec out similar, pre- cutting a dozen(s) posts and pre- cut some bridges to saves time.

My point being, at the end of the week, there will be some instruments that sound very similar and some a bit off. Or even a lot off. And this is sort of a blessing at these numbers. Most players do what they do and like what they like. Variety helps in most shops, but there is that cost. Cloudy gets to be warm, messy starts to have a sizzle. 

Side bar: the crazy aspect of a super clean tone is that the player must also play with intent and clarity.

I have no answers to your situation but if one start to determine the parameters needed to satisfy one's ability to control a desired build, the incrementally increasing data set will get you there. Sorry for stating the obvious, but this is what I often tell myself. Sometimes management does not care about what I think, and just have to get by with adequate or hurried work. My " knife " might get faster, but maybe not better? Belt sanders are real. AI is the belt sander of content creation.

I still have plenty of blindspots on set ups. It might take weeks to settle one tiny aspect of a larger problem. I can get clarity with out volume, then the client will complain about that. After the sound starts to open up, the e- or a- or g- string might "develop" problems not to a player's liking.

The dialog and the understanding of both parties are necessary. I sense satisfaction on certain aspects of your builds. Fortunately you are the builder and player. Try giving it some time, as the arc of expectation diffuse into analysis and awareness and other aspects do get better. Not trying to be patronizing. There are those who keep expecting improvements that they desire or perceive. Sometimes, not percieved. Sometimes a series of events or improvements have to occur and that might/ will, take time. 

Try to compare the integrity of the seams, the corners, the ribs. Saddle? nut? fingerboard? Integration of the heel? If the arching and projection are similar, swap bridges. I tend to brew a lot of coffee or tea, as I need to step away sometimes. Change bows, cookies, 3 octave scales or arpeggios. Another project. There is sanity and then there is work.

So I can share in your frustration and would be curious if it is one simple thing. Again, not knowing the degree of clarity or response desired... I would also try making a simple audio file at a distance and play using a variety of dynamic ranges to determine if the instrument also sounds stuffy or choked.

[bick]

I have noticed that several routine maintenance tasks can improve the tone drastically, even on factory made instruments. Fitting the feet of a bridge, correcting the nut, adjusting the tailgut, bridge postion, and soundpost position are several variables that you can change without deconstructing an instrument. 

 

For example, if moved the position of a bridge, I automatically will check the fit of the feet and position of the sound post. Sometimes, I'll measure the afterlength of the string to see if the tailgate needs to move as a result. Less often, I'll check the nut if something seems wrong.

Knowing where I started, I may move the soundpost closer to the bridge foot for a better response on an instrument that sounds fuzzy or is missing something. I find that this may not always be the thing that is needed, and might opt for a new soundpost or bridge (in that order) to improve the tone of an instrument whose parts I feel are within the parameters. Checking the afterlength and nut are my last resort before I question the build methods used in the construction. 

Obviosuly, On my own instruments I can experiment with changing graduations and such, but for someone else's instrument the routine tasks can make a big difference before getting to something like that. 

 

Can I ask what your current practice is for the setup of your instruments? 

[Shunyata]

What is my current practice for setup?  That is a wide question!!!

In general I carefully follow the methods shown at Triangle Strings website, Davide Sora’s videos, and in the Johnson and Courtnall book.  All of my instruments are set up relatively the same.

The fuzzier next-to-last instrument has a slightly looser soundpost, but it is not in danger of falling over either.  Both are set in exactly the same location.  (I put unobtrusive reference marks on my plates so I know the post is vertical and exactly where it is in relation to bridge foot.)

 

[Eloffe]

13 hours ago, Shunyata said:

The fuzzier next-to-last instrument has a slightly looser soundpost

Try a tighter (longer soundpost)in the same position