Help to ID please.

[geoff1954]

I've been given an old fullsize violin. Stainer arching, baroque-type neck. I'd like to know if it is truly 18 century, or one of the German violins made with this 'old fashioned' design into the nineteenth century. I've come across a few of these later violins but generally they are quite crudely made, whereas this violin is finely carved. There is what appears to be an old pegbox crack to A string hole. Apparently stable. I would be reluctant to do my own cheek repair if the violin is 'the real thing'. 

Unlabelled, one-piece lower rib, no Mittenwald notch. Unusual ridge around the the pegbox and down the middle of the pegbox back. Very cleanly and elegantly carved f holes.  Deep channeling around the edges of belly and back. Length of back 356 mm. Length of fingerboard 255 mm. The pegs have been added by me. I used a modern tailpiece to reduce use of the pegs, given the doubtful strength of the pegbox walls. I'm not able to see the corner blocks. 

There's been a severe break to the top of the neck, not repaired by me. I intend to leave well alone!

Any suggestions as to where and when the violin was made would be appreciated greatly.

[Michael Appleman]

This is an interesting looking violin. Getting a sense of the outline is important. Please take and post straight on shots of the front and back with as little distortion as possible.

[Delabo]

Love the deeply carved back on the scroll. Do the English style boxwood pegs give a clue to its origin?

[GeorgeH]

According to @martin swan, this style of flat fluting in a scroll is quite a common style in Bohemian trade instruments and in bought-in scrolls used in making trade violins.

[geoff1954]

Thanks for the answers so far. 

Given the length of fingerboard, similar to modern standards, I'm thinking 19th century. 

The boxwood pegs are ones I added, replacing a mixed set. So not a clue to anything, unfortunately.

[Blank face]

Because this is some kind of difficult, informations about the corner blocks and linings, if through neck or nailed into a separate upperblock would be important. Also how deep the front scroll is fluted. It seems that the outer ribs are covering the C bout rib at the joint?

The fingerboard can be a later addition like the pegs, so no evidence can be taken from it.

[geoff1954]

I do have some more photos which I'll post. I was unable to remove the endpin so not yet seen the neck joint inside. But I'll see what I can do with a mirror. 

TBH I was pleased when I tensioned the strings that the neck repair didn't fly apart. 

[geoff1954]

I have a couple of answer:

I'm pretty sure it's a through neck.

And, with the help of my best quality scientific magnifier, I've seen how the middle bout ribs are joined to the upper and lower. The middle rib is longer, forming the edge, and the upper/lower but onto it. Very artfully done, not visible to the naked eye (even with specs on.)

[Blank face]

Thanks for the new informations. It seems that it doesn't fit well into any common school, having both a through neck and mitred rib joints, the other way round than it's usual, at the same time. Can you tell if the ribs are fitted into grroves at the bottom plate? Also the scroll, especially the ways it's carved at the rear, doesn't appear so old that it would fit into the period when throughnecks were used.