Bow Arm Fatigue from Fundamental Frequencies of Bow

[nrlewis]

I came across this video about how the fundamental frequency of most wooden bows resonate at about 50 Hz, and how the body is particularly sensitive to that frequency, potentially leading to extra fatigue in long playing sessions. I dug through the comments to find any citations, and there was this article: https://knutsacoustics.com/files/gough-violin-bow-vibrations.pdf. But it only talks about fundamental vibrational frequencies of bows, not the effect on human physiology. Obviously the maker is convinced that his bows are better because of this, but I was wondering about some objective thoughts on it? 

[Shunyata]

Never had pain and fatigue in my bow arm, even after hours of rehearsal.  

After hours of swinging a pickaxe I have had severe pain and fatigue.  Must have been due to the resonant frequencies of the hickory handle.

[The Violin Beautiful]

I remember reading about the old men in the Iliad lamenting the glory days when men could lift a stone that it would take ten men to lift in the present day. Have we become so weak now that we have to lament the days when a violinist could manage to hold a bow up?

[tetler]

If you believe in this stuff, I'm sure your body will feel better playing one of those bows. If you don't believe in it, you will feel nothing. There is no science behind this, except psychology 

[violinnewb]

LOL.  This is great (sarcasm) marketing.

Bow arm fatigue comes from lack of sustained practice, improper/problematic technique, or sudden bursts of long playing without having played much prior.  There may be some other factors, but I am doubtful that resonant frequencies are a main contributing factor.  

[Altgeiger]

You get rid of pain and fatigue in your bow arm by learning to use the bow correctly. Good equipment can help encourage good habits, and bad equipment can encourage or even require bad habits, but certainly 150 years of violinists have not suffered with universally bad equipment. 

Also, if you don't like your bow's resonant frequency, the little screw on the end will adjust that for you.

[David Burgess]

The new McDonalds fries are healthy. The reason the old fries weren't is that they were vibrating at too low a frequency.

[Shunyata]

3 hours ago, Altgeiger said:

Also, if you don't like your bow's resonant frequency, the little screw on the end will adjust that for you.

I love it… it is literally true!!!

[Rico Suave]

Maybe a Shake Weight can help build elbow and upper arm strength for bowing, too...?

 

 

 

 

[baroquecello]

No matter how sceptical you are, I'm quite sure there is a core of truth in this. Years ago, I had an infection in my elbow. Ever since I get slight pains when using a particular snakewood baroque bow for a long time. This does not happen with other bows, baroque or modern. I have a student, 80 years old, who had an infection in her shoulder. She can now play almost without pain when using an Arcus bow. No other bows, light or heavy, allow her to play for prolonged times. 

[martin swan]

In my opinion the pain is the result of tension. If the bow isn't working for you on some basic level, you will have a destructive tension in your bowing arm. Over time this can have serious consequences.

For some people a lighter bow may be the solution - for others a heavier bow. The important thing is that a given individual ins't fighting against any given bow.

The essential premise of this promotional video seems to me quite silly.

[matesic]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:23 PM, nrlewis said:

I came across this video about how the fundamental frequency of most wooden bows resonate at about 50 Hz, and how the body is particularly sensitive to that frequency, potentially leading to extra fatigue in long playing sessions. I dug through the comments to find any citations, and there was this article: https://knutsacoustics.com/files/gough-violin-bow-vibrations.pdf. But it only talks about fundamental vibrational frequencies of bows, not the effect on human physiology. Obviously the maker is convinced that his bows are better because of this, but I was wondering about some objective thoughts on it? 

Unfortunately all my thoughts seem to come out as subjective.

1. This guy is practically unlistenable.

2. It's a bad workman who blames his tools

3. Bow-action is the kind of semi-automated movement that may give rise to muscular lock-ups or spasms if practised too intensively. Of course this is most often manifested in sports where motor programs like those used for hitting a ball with a stick get highly stereotyped.

4. Any bow with a different "feel" may help the player develop a subtly different and more flexible motor program 

[GerardM]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:59 PM, David Burgess said:

The new McDonalds fries are healthy. The reason the old fries weren't is that they were vibrating at too low a frequency.

High frequency could be the answer to reducing cholesterol. 

[FiddleDoug]

Is that especially a problem in Europe/UK, where everything electrical runs on 50 Hz? Here in the US, we run on 60 Hz.

I would suspect that it would have more to do with weight, stiffness, and balance, than frequency. I would also want to see some scientific studies done on hundreds of different bows to support that theory. In general, I'll call BS on that.