What can I learn from this violin?

[AaronS76]

I enjoy flicking through online classifieds and looking at online classifieds and trying to reinforce what I am learning. This one has me conpletely befuddled. Throughneck? French looking corners but thick rib joins? Weird dog nose on the back of the scroll? Is it just an older version of the usual? Anyone willing/able to enlighten me on the age and or region of manufacture and what points to that conclusion. 
 

TIA

 

 

[Blank face]

This looks like a Caussin school or "Caussin shop" being actually made of a Schönbach box, roughly 2nd half/end of the 19th century. I've seen them often being built on the back, without corner blocks, carved bassbar etc., but not with a through neck before. Somehow interesting as another prove that there was a trade relation between Schönbach and Neufchateau or Mirecourt.

[AaronS76]

Woah. That’s a lot to take in.
 

I always thought that the reason there was distinct manufacturing methods between regions was because it was a relatively long distance. But if there was trade then clearly they were well of the different manufacturing methods and there is another reason. thanks for the info. 

[tetler]

Interesting. What parts of the work did de caussin shop folks do then? Or in other words, how is this different from something you might simply call a Schönbach instrument? 

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, tetler said:

Interesting. What parts of the work did de caussin shop folks do then? Or in other words, how is this different from something you might simply call a Schönbach instrument? 

In my eyes the antiquing, the finish, the blackened chest, and details of the model like the shape of the a Schönbach most likely would have an inserted saddle(though not the button).

Otherwise it would be a very informed copy including the typical label.

[Brad Dorsey]

 

8 hours ago, Blank face said:

This looks like a Caussin school or "Caussin shop"...

Interesting to me that you would say that, because many years ago a knowledgeable dealer told me that “Caussins” often have the name on the label mis-spelled, as we see here.

[jacobsaunders]

12 minutes ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Interesting to me that you would say that, because many years ago a knowledgeable dealer told me that “Caussins” often have the name on the label mis-spelled, as we see here.

Thanks, I will have to add illiterate Frenchmen to my features list

[AaronS76]

13 hours ago, Blank face said:

This looks like a Caussin school or "Caussin shop" being actually made of a Schönbach box, roughly 2nd half/end of the 19th century. I've seen them often being built on the back, without corner blocks, carved bassbar etc., but not with a through neck before. Somehow interesting as another prove that there was a trade relation between Schönbach and Neufchateau or Mirecourt.

Thanks for the response blank face. If I have this right, you are saying they purchased a Schonbach top, back and ribs glued up and then added a through neck to that? Also, when you say not with a through neck, so does that mean that this is an earlier version of what you normally see or for some reason did this “shop” still use through necks relatively late?

thanks again
 

 

[Guido]

The through-neck would indicate they bought the whole violin (probably in the white) from Schoenbach.

The rib joints and corner overhang don't seem to fit well into the picture tough, unless they filed them back substantially.

[Blank face]

A through neck would be (during the period) a Schönbach feature, not a french. The very broad rib joints look like typical bob and heavily filed back.

[tetler]

6 minutes ago, Blank face said:

A through neck would be (during the period) a Schönbach feature, not a french. The very broad rib joints look like typical bob and heavily filed back.

Any idea if this filing back was done in Schönbach or in France? Also, when corners have been filed back, I would expect to see scratches from the file on the overhang of the plate corners. Is that something you have noticed in general?

[Blank face]

Scratches and other file marks can be removed relatively easily, with a knife or scraper etc.

Were this was done remains, like almost all of my assumptions, speculative, but most probably appears that it happened together with the final finish of the rough box.

[reg]

Dog nose - please explain?

[GeorgeH]

26 minutes ago, reg said:

Dog nose - please explain?

Often referred to here as a "delta."

[reg]

Aah yes - the delta

Thanks