Definitely not the "usual"

[Richf]

This ebay fiddle from 1882 has its tailpiece as an extension of the fingerboard:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/355972175672 .  The "maker" patented that device as something that somehow would enhance the sound by virtue of a magnetic field.  According to Wenberg, he did not actually make violins.  Attached is an additional photo the seller sent me, which seems to show a large magnet between the fingerboard and top plate. Maybe a potential precursor to electric guitars -- before there was electricity?  It might have done something as long as the strings were steel, but not so much with heavy metals wound on fibers.  But what -- if anything?

[jacobsaunders]

Whenever anybody titles a thread “Definitely not the usual” one can with certainty scroll down and view a picture of a “usual”, even should it have some American optional extras

 

[Shelbow]

9 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Whenever anybody titles a thread “Definitely not the usual” one can with certainty scroll down and view a picture of a “usual”, even should it have some American optional extras

 

 I was thinking exactly the same when I read the title.

[Don Noon]

13 minutes ago, Richf said:

This ebay fiddle from 1882 has its tailpiece as an extension of the fingerboard...

Reinvented by Marty K.

15 minutes ago, Richf said:

...somehow would enhance the sound by virtue of a magnetic field.  ...  But what -- if anything?

You could possibly use a magnetic field and a conductive metal wrapped string to increase damping... but you'd have to electrically connect one end of the string to the other to complete the circuit.  I doubt that was the intent.  Probably oodly oodly magic magnetic field with imaginary effects.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

22 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

Reinvented by Marty K.

You could possibly use a magnetic field and a conductive metal wrapped string to increase damping... but you'd have to electrically connect one end of the string to the other to complete the circuit.  I doubt that was the intent.  Probably oodly oodly magic magnetic field with imaginary effects.

Mine have the tailpiece an actual extension of the wood fingerboard rather than an add-on to the bottom of the fingerboard.  This saves a lot of weight. 

I could glue on a magnet on the end to generate electricity for players who have metal framed glasses.

 

[David Burgess]

2 hours ago, Don Noon said:

Reinvented by Marty K.

You could possibly use a magnetic field and a conductive metal wrapped string to increase damping... but you'd have to electrically connect one end of the string to the other to complete the circuit.  I doubt that was the intent.  Probably oddly magic magnetic field with imaginary effects.

Has there ever been a shortage of voodoo ideas and imaginary effects in the fiddlemaking realm?

[Blank face]

Emile Berliner was also the Inventor of the gramophone, so not any insignificant figure.

Yet I could only find the grammophone patent, but not the one for the violin device, though there’s a picture and a description at the Smithsonian (with spruce bottom).

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803#:~:text=This violin tailpiece was patented,under the direction of Mr.
 

 

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803
 

 

[HoGo]

I don't see anything magnetic in the device. It's wedged in the slot at the base of the neck and the setscrew adjusts it's projection angle and thus break angle of strings.

I wonder about difference in tone from standard tailpiece.

[Dr. Mark]

E&M was big back then among scientists, inventors, and various frauds and scam artists - a bit like AI now....  Maxwell died in '79, the year Einstein was born.  Einstein's special relativity paper was 'The Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". 

[LCF]

4 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

.. I could glue on a magnet on the end to generate electricity for players who have metal framed glasses.

 

 

Why do they need electricity? Does it help the myopia? If so I'm keen to try it.

[LCF]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Emile Berliner was also the Inventor of the gramophone, so not any insignificant figure.

Yet I could only find the grammophone patent, but not the one for the violin device, though there’s a picture and a description at the Smithsonian (with spruce bottom).

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803#:~:text=This violin tailpiece was patented,under the direction of Mr.
 

 

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803
 

 

That suggests another thing to try, to fix a gramophone needle on top of a violin bridge and use it to play some records. Would a Strad have better reproduction than a Markie?

[LCF]

10 hours ago, Blank face said:

Emile Berliner was also the Inventor of the gramophone, so not any insignificant figure.

Yet I could only find the grammophone patent, but not the one for the violin device, though there’s a picture and a description at the Smithsonian (with spruce bottom).

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803#:~:text=This violin tailpiece was patented,under the direction of Mr.
 

 

https://www.si.edu/object/german-violin-berliner-patent-tailpiece%3Anmah_606803
 

 

It's interesting that the side view photo from the Smithsonian shows the tail end of the device resting on a piece of fabric on the soundboard. Perhaps it lifts up somewhat under full tension? It also looks like it's made from bakelite but 1881/82 is too early for that. The example must be post 1907.  

[HoGo]

I guess the felt is there just to protect top while it is installed and/or while unstrung. The description tells it's adjustable and the setscrew under fingerboard may supply the adjustment of the elevation of the "tailpiece". You can estimate that thin thing will bend a bit under tension as well.

[Johnny Sun]

On 9/9/2024 at 5:46 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Mine have the tailpiece an actual extension of the wood fingerboard rather than an add-on to the bottom of the fingerboard.  This saves a lot of weight. 

I could glue on a magnet on the end to generate electricity for players who have metal framed glasses.

 

Does it vibrate better than traditional designed violin?

[Richf]

For the record, just to complete what we know about these  Berliner violins....  I see now that neither the original ebay listing nor the Smithsonian description cited by Blankface actually mention magnets.  It was only the Wenberg book on American makers that mentions magnetized strings, so maybe that's not accurate.  The endpin on it looks to be slotted for an Allen wrench, perhaps to adjust the bridge tension, in which case what I thought was a "magnet" under the fingerboard might be there only as a fulcrum to leverage the tension (see pic above).  ???  (Does the Kasprzyk "tailpiece" allow for adjusting bridge tension?)   Maybe the strangest feature on the Smithsonian copy, labeled as made in Germany in 1880,  is the spruce back.   The ebay copy, labeled as made in 1882, has evolved to have a nice two-piece maple back, pinned at top and bottom -- if my eyes are seeing correctly (see pic).  Probably not a cheap violin even without the Berliner device.  I also see now from the ebay photos that this device was patented in multiple countries (see pics).  Mr. Berliner clearly had high hopes for it.