Is CodaBow Prodigy overpriced?

[Spelman]

19 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

because a carbon bow can bring you everything you need on a certain level: clarity, elasticity, strengh etc. I some sense you feel it is "perfect". But a carbon bow will never offer you the complexity and nuance a wooden bow offers. That is the reason I say, one should never use a carbon, but to start and stay with wooden. 

Have you ever played a nice CF bow?

[Johnny Sun]

49 minutes ago, Spelman said:

Have you ever played a nice CF bow?

Yes, I tried one. I forgot what exactly the brand name is, Arcus or Arcos? It was a gold mount bow. Really really nice, playability 10/10. But feels soulless. 

[Victor Roman]

2 hours ago, Blank face said:

 

Though they looked like a shoebox on wheels, technically made of rags and resins, similar to the way Carbon bows are produced.

( Trabant ) ... For the purpose they were excellent. No rust, easy and dirt cheap to fix and started quickly in freezing cold weather. Two stroke engine ( twice the power of a 4 stroke for same displacement ) and very light = very nimble in city driving. Numerous drawbacks, but that will take me a page or two.

[Spelman]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

Yes, I tried one. I forgot what exactly the brand name is, Arcus or Arcos? It was a gold mount bow. Really really nice, playability 10/10. But feels soulless. 

99.9% chance it was an Arcus. Did you play it for at least a few days? They take a while to acclimate to.

I find they have soul, it's just different from the way a wooden bow presents itself.

[Blank face]

10 minutes ago, Victor Roman said:

Two stroke engine...

The morning after the wall was opened we woke up from a nasty smell....

[David Burgess]

3 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I thought they were cardboard

Had the Trabant bodies been made from cardboard, Trabant owners would have mostly been driving around in cars without bodies, since cardboard is somewhat edible (in a pinch).

There are increasing reports of plant-based plastics being especially attractive to rodents. My insurance company paid a multi-thousand-dollar repair expense due to  rodents chewing up (eating?) various parts of my newest car.

[Victor Roman]

3 minutes ago, Blank face said:

The morning after the wall was opened we woke up from a nasty smell....

I remember it well. Same time, the typical Trabby owner and the people who envied him   did not seem to care. There weren't that many of them in Romania, where I can from, though the rustproof advantage was hard to ignore. I bought a Renault 12 in '73 and was full of holes by '75. Sane people simply would not drive them in winter. 

[Victor Roman]

2 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Had the Trabant bodies been made from cardboard, Trabant owners would have mostly been driving around in cars without bodies, since cardboard is somewhat edible (in a pinch).

There are increasing reports of plant-based plastics being especially attractive to rodents. My insurance company paid a multi-thousand-dollar repair expense due to  rodents chewing up various parts of my newest car.

Had this problem with the Mercs - rats chewing the wiring. The explanation given was that the insulation is based on soy beans oil ?) and rats like it a lot. 

[Victor Roman]

Just now, Victor Roman said:

Had this problem with the Mercs - rats chewing the wiring. The explanation given was that the insulation is based on soy beans oil ?) and rats like it a lot. 

Another great feature of Merc wiring is that the soy based insulation sucks and carries oil through the wiring. Particularly auto gearbox loom and connectors. New cars are like marriages : problems one never had before....

[David Burgess]

21 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

because a carbon bow can bring you everything you need on a certain level: clarity, elasticity, strengh etc. I some sense you feel it is "perfect". But a carbon bow will never offer you the complexity and nuance a wooden bow offers. That is the reason I say, one should never use a carbon, but to start and stay with wooden. 

A lot of that will depend on what prejudices you already have in place.

[Victor Roman]

1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

A lot of that will depend on what prejudices you already have in place.

I was waiting for somebody to say that.....  

[Mr. Bean]

Carbon bows have no souls, nor do wooden bows have them: it is just the material that is different. Believing that objects have souls is just superstition IMHO.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

Carbon bows sound like crap compared to decent pernambuco, on that many of us can agree, on playability, people swear by them though

[Victor Roman]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

Carbon bows have no souls, nor do wooden bows have them: it is just the material that is different. Believing that objects have souls is just superstition IMHO.

I think what people mean by a bow having a soul is that it responds somehow more in tune with human physiology. Not too fast, not too slow, not to abrupt, not too shallow, nor too jumpy, neither too lazy. More or less like good violins.

[Mr. Bean]

44 minutes ago, Victor Roman said:

I think what people mean by a bow having a soul is that it responds somehow more in tune with human physiology. Not too fast, not too slow, not to abrupt, not too shallow, nor too jumpy, neither too lazy. More or less like good violins.

If you describe "soul" that way. I can agree: carbon bows can have "soul" as well !

[Spelman]

8 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

Carbon bows sound like crap compared to decent pernambuco, on that many of us can agree, on playability, people swear by them though

Good CF bows don't sound like crap

[David Burgess]

Based on everything that's been said so far in this thread, I'm concluding that older plant souls are somewhat superior to newer plant souls, up to a point.  If the older plant souls are old enough that they need to be revived from really-really old plants (petroleum), their soul-value diminishes.

[LCF]

On 8/31/2024 at 5:46 AM, David Burgess said:

Based on everything that's been said so far in this thread, I'm concluding that older plant souls are somewhat superior to newer plant souls, up to a point.  If the older plant souls are old enough that they need to be revived from really-really old plants (petroleum), their soul-value diminishes.

Doesn't the carbon in carbon fibre come from recently cremated plant remains? 

 

 

[David Burgess]

11 hours ago, LCF said:

Doesn't the carbon in carbon fibre come from recently cremated plant remains? 

 

 

Early low-strength versions were, such as the "carbon" filaments Edison used experimentally for light bulbs. Modern high-strength versions mostly use petroleum as the raw material.

[mezzopiano]

On 8/28/2024 at 1:46 AM, ViolinAnanda said:

of best selling products and there is also wooden bow Karl Hofner H8/5 that is at similar price but is 3rd best selling product. Did anyone have experience with this Karl hofner bow?

I dont have much option as there is not a lot of cheap carbon bows in my local shop to choose from so I feel attracted to Thomann online shop, Im from Europe and without much experience with Bows I'm not sure I feel like buying second hand on Ebay without having guarantee, it will probably take time to find good deal also.

If anyone see better option in Thomann online shop that would be better than codabow Prodigy I will be forever grateful. There is some Artino bf-31vn for $300 I wonder how it would compare to Prodigy. Also some economic Gewa Advanced Carbon Bow for $150 that is 2 best selling product.

I've been playing violin only for a few years now, so I'm not an advanced player. But I happen ho have a good historic bow and in my quest for a second bow I tested several alternatives in the 200-700€ range.

I tested one Höfner H8/10 and one H8/5 before I got my primary bow, but the samples I had were too flexible. I was also not convinced by Chinese pernambuco bows (I tried a few up to 250€), but apparently quality varies a lot and with some luck you can get a very good bow.

Codabow: I tested one each of Diamond NX, SX, GX (old model with ebony frog on sale), and Marquise GS. The NX was not correctly haired. The SX was nothing to write home about. The GX had the best sound and its dynamic behaviour was closest to my good pernambuco bow, also according to my teacher, so I ended up keeping the GX. 

I also tested a few lower tier unidirectional carbon fibre bows (by Vingobow, Artino, and Hidersine), but they all were less controllable than the GX, eg in sautillé.

I tested some Arcus 5 and 6 models, and they have a remarkably clear sound and are extremely light. However, I opted for something with a feeling closer to a wooden bow, because I need to switch between the two.

I tested the Müsing C4 and C5 bows. They played nicely, but to me and on my violin they did not sound better than the GX. Looking forward to test the new Müsing L-Series in near future.

As a travel bow for my cheap e-violin that can stay in the car I got a braided carbon fibre bow from Vingobow for about 70€ and it plays exceptionally well for the price. But several other CF bows in this price range had major issues. YMMV

Thomann has a no-questions-asked 30-days return policy, so you might too want to order a few bows to compare them.

[GoPractice]

On 8/24/2024 at 1:07 PM, ViolinAnanda said:

I'm between beginner and intermediate playing with $50 wood bow and I wanna buy new bow most likely carbon fiber in $300-500 range. ( ... ) Are there any bow models that would be worth buying without testing them out, knowing that at minimum they will be 'good' for most people, hoping 'very good'?

It matters where you are in your playing journey, what type of music you are playing and enjoying.

New bows have helped in getting past barriers in playing. Sometimes something new can also ignite a deeper interest in playing. Most barriers are technical, sometimes it is tonal, but there are bows that improve playing. A new bow may offer insight to allow for adapting or bridging, the physical limitations of a desired technique. Or not. Best case, positive experience from new equipment might make for more fun and less stress.

Quality varies immensely in any range of engineered product expensive or not. Then there are issues with the players. Not always a linear journey and personal needs ( bias? ) can also vary immensely from the individual's to colleagues' point of view.

Is it possible to trial an inexpensive composite bow locally? The variation in playing quality is much better now. Stiffer and lighter have been oversold a bit to much and softer, supple is much more difficult to survey. Beginners need a straighter bow with fewer flaws and intermediate players need a more expressive but forgiving bow. Stiffer and lighter perhaps tends towards the more nasal or strident, tonally, but the response might be immediate. Softer grippier bows might sound fuller or the tonal variety greater with more complex articulation. The oversimplications of the more current budget composite bows...

Practice, rosin, new strings, and set ups can make a difference. These are additional costs. To maximize the experience, one does need to explore, remain attentive and want to identify the possible improvements within reach and try for more, given practice?

A second Coda Conservatory from a decade ago came with a recent purchase. It took me about 3 years to rehair the last one I received because there were other priorities. The Conservatory was the standard composite alternative to wood bows for a considerable number of developing students. Many players learned an immense amount from that bow. The bows were not too stiff nor too soft, too light or too heavy. But it was not " just right " either which was perhaps its virtue. Many players improved significantly with the bow because it was the parent who desired something practical. It was engineered to be practical and it allowed the players to play better.

I do own more Coda and Arcus bows. They are great for teaching and owning a variety of composite bows in helping to better understand the shifting market. 

I do know bows pretty well and know what I can play and teach to. It takes about three bow swaps for my students to start to appreciate what a bow can do. They notice changes, but until they try new ways and adapt, the bow changes are superficial. Working with students, one gives up either patience or time. It is rare these days when a kid runs with it. When they do, it's mostly exploring how loud, soft, bright, dark, sustained, short. When they become aware and start to imagine and develop possibilities is when actual improvements occur. After a month or so, even the old bow starts to sound better. In the end, my hope is that they are reaching for or demanding more out of themselves and the market.

Trust me, it's not all feel good either, because it is a lot of work to play well.

There is the psychological benefit to purchasing from an established company or dealer. But knowing little about your playing, it is difficult at this price point to encourage a leap from a well used and loved $50 bow - knowing that there might be something to be learned, if that is desired? For a less risky, good low- end composite purchase, the bow must have better hair, come out of manufacturing straight. Firm to develop a sustained forte and ideally with enough give for gripping the string. Lively- ness is where the filtering of many bows occur. A well behaved bow might be necessary, which makes trying several bows out for a good week premium for those who do. Not judging needs. Simply, there are more offerings now and it is difficult to keep track of and keep in stock, better, less expensive bows.

At the intermediate level, learning to have a good feel starts where the hair makes contact with the string. How it feels in the hand and balance point - within reason - might be secondary to get to the next intermediate level. If you have determined that one's technique allows for greater and faster contact, then the feel and balance point can be more of a search, but these can be altered a bit by a better shop. But if you do feel that contact and the string responds, these are maybe important and perhaps good.

Assurances are more closely achieved ( increasing the odds for a better outcome ) by purchasing a more established or familiar brand, when the only possibilities are online or from a limited sampling. For the user purchasing familiar brands, the more common experiences can also have a long term benefit when learning or sharing and discussing. Shops and teachers will have the greatest impact. Better hair, better rosin ( not necessarily expensive ) and sensible suggestions are what one finds with better customer service and interactions from those who know a bit more. 

This summer 2024, several emergency purchases had to be made by students who were travelling and we managed to find Artino ( a fairly well known brand ) composite bows from local dealers which were quite good to excellent for the price. Having the benefit of trying out several bows within several brands, as there were some variations, was an additional bonus.

As back ups, the kids chose bows that felt the most familiar. I located a few different models of cello and violin bows which I liked and picked up a bow from Century Strings as well. I urged the older students to pick bows that played well but were different and sounded different, but they stuck to what felt or sounded familiar. It would be curious as to what their teachers would have suggested... there are so many choices. Certainly Coda is a reassuring brand but the willingness to experiment will also have benefits.