Is CodaBow Prodigy overpriced?

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

With 300-500USD, you can get a  Chinese silver mounted pernambuco bow which plays excellent. As a professional musician I personally suggest you not to use a carbon stick, ever. 

Yes, if that ís real pernambuco. You could be lucky if you would find a Chinese "pernambuco" bow that plays well" for under 500: only a few will! Of course the silver mounting is totally irrelevant soundwise for Chinese bows.

[jacobsaunders]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Of course the silver mounting is totally irrelevant soundwise for Chinese bows.

Plastic with silver mounts of course is like putting an elderly viola player in a Corvette

[Dwight Brown]

16 hours ago, Spelman said:

Niiice!

It has been remarkably reliable.

DLB

go figure?

[Spelman]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

As a professional musician I personally suggest you not to use a carbon stick, ever. 

Why?

[Spelman]

49 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

It has been remarkably reliable.

DLB

go figure?

Don't jinx it! lol

[David Burgess]

On 8/26/2024 at 3:12 PM, Dwight Brown said:

My whole car is plastic! 
 

DLB

"Plastic cars for plastic people".

Seriously though, I've had quite a few plastic-bodied cars, and it's nice to have a car that is impervious to door dings and body rust.

[Johnny Sun]

1 hour ago, Spelman said:

Why?

because a carbon bow can bring you everything you need on a certain level: clarity, elasticity, strengh etc. I some sense you feel it is "perfect". But a carbon bow will never offer you the complexity and nuance a wooden bow offers. That is the reason I say, one should never use a carbon, but to start and stay with wooden. 

[Johnny Sun]

5 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Yes, if that ís real pernambuco. You could be lucky if you would find a Chinese "pernambuco" bow that plays well" for under 500: only a few will! Of course the silver mounting is totally irrelevant soundwise for Chinese bows.

You have white copper mounted Chinese bows which are for beginners and not made of pernambuco. Therefore mounting is relevant with quality. You also find very high quality gold or tortoise shell mounted bow by master bow makers cost thousands of USD.

I have visited the factories and workshops in Suzhou not only once, you won't imagine how many pernambuco logs they import from Brazil every year if you don't witness by yourself. 

The impression of China made stuff are low quality and low cost is so deep, that many people don't see the change. It is different now. 

[Johnny Sun]

8 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

The Chinese bows are not really pernambuco, which is illegal, but the wood they use is quite strong and can make a decent student bow, also classic or antique nickel mount pernambuco or brasilwood bow can be had in the same price range and if you have many to chose from you can find good ones

I am afraid that I have seen one Chinese bow which is made of pernambuco:) Your statement sounds like all Africans are black. There are always exceptions, in fact a lot. 

I might be wrong, but let me post the Chinese bow I have one day. It costed less than 100 USD in 2003. You can tell me whether it is made of Pernambuco or not. 

[David Burgess]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

I am afraid that I have seen one Chinese bow which is made of pernambuco:) Your statement sounds like all Africans are black. There are always exceptions, in fact a lot. 

I might be wrong, but let me post the Chinese bow I have one day. It costed less than 100 USD in 2003. You can tell me whether it is made of Pernambuco or not. 

One can buy lot of products in China which are of questionable legality in other countries, including those recently carved from ivory. Good luck getting that intricately carved ivory piece across an international border though! Pernambuco may still be a bit unfamiliar at many border inspection sites.

[Deo Lawson]

I have never liked the sound or feeling of a carbon stick on an acoustic violin. However, I have found that my electric responds better to a cheap graphite bow than my preferred pernambuco bow. Funny how that works.

I haven't spent a lot of time with the more expensive braided cf bows but I think up to $500 is fair for an indestructible "go anywhere, anytime" tool.

[GeorgeH]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

But a carbon bow will never offer you the complexity and nuance a wooden bow offers.

Yes, some can and do.

That is a particularly absolutist statement considering how many wooden bows offer no complexity and nuance nor clarity, elasticity, strength etc.

And if China is importing pernambuco logs from Brazil, then I would assume that it is being harvested and smuggled in illegally. 

[Johnny Sun]

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

One can buy lot of products in China which are of questionable legality in other countries, including those recently carved from ivory. Good luck getting that intricately carved ivory piece across an international border though! Pernambuco may still be a bit unfamiliar at many border inspection sites.

I am not sure about elephant ivory and Rhino horn etc. Those items are officially forbidden on the market in China, including Hong Kong. Licensed dealers could be still selling items from their old stock, until a certain date. Import and export are strictly forbidden though. 

[Johnny Sun]

12 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Yes, some can and do.

That is a particularly absolutist statement considering how many wooden bows offer no complexity and nuance nor clarity, elasticity, strength etc.

And if China is importing pernambuco logs from Brazil, then I would assume that it is being harvested and smuggled in illegally. 

There are different levels of understanding and demand of nuance and complexity. A carbon bow probably could please some players, but I don't think a great classic musician will be completely satisfied with any carbon bow.

If you would name ONE soloist who appears on major international stage and constantly using a carbon bow for classic repertoire, you prove that I am wrong. 

[Victor Roman]

26 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

And if China is importing pernambuco logs from Brazil, then I would assume that it is being harvested and smuggled in illegally. 

China and Brazil are both BRICS. "Illegal" doesn't apply....

[David Burgess]

17 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

I am not sure about elephant ivory and Rhino horn etc. Those items are officially forbidden on the market in China, including Hong Kong. Licensed dealers could be still selling items from their old stock, until a certain date. Import and export are strictly forbidden though. 

Isn't there a thriving "gray market" in mainland China, which officials kind of tacitly allow as long as the participants don't pizz off the wrong people?

[Geoffrey N]

9 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

There are different levels of understanding and demand of nuance and complexity. A carbon bow probably could please some players, but I don't think a great classic musician will be completely satisfied with any carbon bow.

If you would name ONE soloist who appears on major international stage and constantly using a carbon bow for classic repertoire, you prove that I am wrong. 

Can you name ONE soloist who appears on major international stage and constantly uses a <$500 wood bow for classic repertoire?

In my experience, the lower you go below $1000, the more carbon fiber bows at that price point tend to outshine their wooden alternatives. When you graduate to a multi-thousand dollar bow, you're looking for more than carbon fiber is likely going to offer you...

[Johnny Sun]

31 minutes ago, Geoffrey N said:

Can you name ONE soloist who appears on major international stage and constantly uses a <$500 wood bow for classic repertoire?

Yes, Yuri Bashmet. Probably the only one who uses 500 USD bow for solo. In an old interview he said he most often uses his East German viola bow which costs a couple hundred DM in concert, despite he has all luxurious old French bows in his collection. 

54 minutes ago, Geoffrey N said:

In my experience, the lower you go below $1000, the more carbon fiber bows at that price point tend to outshine their wooden alternatives. When you graduate to a multi-thousand dollar bow, you're looking for more than carbon fiber is likely going to offer you...

This I agree with you. 

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sun said:

If you would name ONE soloist who appears on major international stage and constantly using a carbon bow for classic repertoire, you prove that I am wrong. 

That is a somewhat ridiculous test criteria. I doubt that any "soloist who appears on major international stage" uses a bow in the price range of Codabows. They all use overpriced pernambuco bows. 

[IBK]

You can buy items from China which are legal in China and not legal in other countries.  Fake Rolex watches are a good example.  Manufacturing fake Rolex watches are a violation of international trade mark protection, however that protection does not apply to items sold in China. Someone other than Rolex in China has registered the  trademark.  If these product are exported from China they are considered contraband and if imported to Europe there can be sever consequences. Substantial fines and possible jail time.   If imported into the US they are just confiscated.  The clone level of these is incredible. You can't tell them fro the original.  

The Gibson Guitar had a problem with their trade mark protection several years ago when they went to China to a music trade show.  When they arrived they encountered a Gibson booth already set up by a Chinese company who had already registered the Gibson name. 

[ViolinAnanda]

Would you say that at $400 price when buying carbon fiber bow, CodaBow Prodigy is the best option to go or are there any other options that are much better at that price on Thomann? 

[Blank face]

17 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

because a carbon bow can bring you everything you need on a certain level: clarity, elasticity, strengh etc. I some sense you feel it is "perfect". But a carbon bow will never offer you the complexity and nuance a wooden bow offers. That is the reason I say, one should never use a carbon, but to start and stay with wooden. 

That sounds very similar to arguments I heard when Dominant strings were introduced and most of the "professionals" said they would never replace gut strings. OTOH the violinsts from the former GDR were used to drive in plastic cars called Trabant.

[jacobsaunders]

7 minutes ago, Blank face said:

OTOH the violinsts from the former GDR were used to drive in plastic cars called Trabant.

I thought they were cardboard

[Sammyo]

Duroplast!

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I thought they were cardboard

 

24 minutes ago, Sammyo said:

Duroplast!

Though they looked like a shoebox on wheels, technically made of rags and resins, similar to the way Carbon bows are produced.