Is CodaBow Prodigy overpriced?

[ViolinAnanda]

I'm between beginner and intermediate playing with $50 wood bow and I wanna buy new bow most likely carbon fiber in $300-500 range. I saw that many people like CodaBow Prodigy but I wonder if it's price is not overpriced because of company's prestige. My question is: If I buy some other chinese models would I get the same quality but for half the price?

In my local shop they don't have many cheap carbow bows, only some "Carbondix" model for $130 and CodaBow Prodigy for $650 so can't test many that would be priced in between. If I order directly from Thomann in their online shop I will get Prodigy for $446. Are there any bow models that would be worth buying without testing them out, knowing that at minimum they will be 'good' for most people, hoping 'very good'?

[Dwight Brown]

I have a Coda Bow viola bow Diamond GX that I bought out of curiosity. It was at the time their top of the line bow. It wasn’t assembled correctly and had to be sent back which seemed a bit odd but I chalked it up to my dumb luck. They were quite nice and did take care of it. It is ok and it’s a bow I use in hand to hand combat conditions like outdoor concerts, etc. it cost about $1000.00 at the time. It doesn’t feel like much in my hand, rather lifeless really but it’s straight and serviceable. You might try a Jon Paul bow from one of their dealers. I have a Benoit Rolland Avante carbon violin bow that I used for teaching that I rather liked. And I think the Jon Paul bows are a development of that. For clarification my Coda Bow is a viola bow. Bows are very personal. If at all possible try them out first some dealers like Shar and others will send you bows to try on trial. One person’s Tourte is another person’s tomato stake! If you have a teacher have them try them too.

just some ideas from an old fart.

DLB

[Spelman]

I don't have any direct experience with the Prodigy but it uses old carbon tech. I quite like the Artino Aria, unidirectional carbon fiber and around $250 - $300. I've bought one and I've had a lot of students get them.

If you can select, I find the stiffer sticks generally work better.

[Dwight Brown]

14 minutes ago, Spelman said:

I don't have any direct experience with the Prodigy but it uses old carbon tech. I quite like the Artino Aria, unidirectional carbon fiber and around $250 - $300. I've bought one and I've had a lot of students get them.

If you can select, I find the stiffer sticks generally work better.

What would the newer technology be? As an archer I have some experience with carbon technology but our arrows and bows may not be cutting edge either. Cut offs of carbon arrows can make handy things for reinforcing the handle end of broken bows.

DLB

[Spelman]

The unidirectional carbon fiber

[Dwight Brown]

I think that is the way my arrows are made. The best arrow like they use in the Olympics are actually carbon over a thin aluminum center. I’m not sure of the advantage but they are made so that they are tapered. Thin at both ends and larger in the middle. Also in quite a few different stiffnesses. Or spines. I wonder if there could be some technological cross fertilization between the disciplines. Easton X10 arrows are expensive but a dozen for $480.00 is pretty cheap by violin bow standards. I bet they could turn out a killer bow stick that could have interchangeable frogs, tips, and sticks.

DLB

[Wood Butcher]

13 hours ago, ViolinAnanda said:

I'm between beginner and intermediate playing with $50 wood bow and I wanna buy new bow most likely carbon fiber in $300-500 range. I saw that many people like CodaBow Prodigy but I wonder if it's price is not overpriced because of company's prestige. My question is: If I buy some other chinese models would I get the same quality but for half the price?

In my local shop they don't have many cheap carbow bows, only some "Carbondix" model for $130 and CodaBow Prodigy for $650 so can't test many that would be priced in between. If I order directly from Thomann in their online shop I will get Prodigy for $446. Are there any bow models that would be worth buying without testing them out, knowing that at minimum they will be 'good' for most people, hoping 'very good'?

This seems a strange sort of question. With any product, where it is manufactured, becomes a determining factor in the price.
To make a bow in the USA, where the workers have rights, are paid fairly for their work, and the factory has to comply with both safety & environmental concerns, comes with costs. In addition, there will be shipping, possible importation taxes etc. Therefore, taking all this into account, in reality, it would seem to be priced fairly.
Your local shop also has to spend their money, to buy in a coda, so it is there for you to try.

If the main deciding factor in choosing a bow is price, then you would look elsewhere, where the concerns written above are largely ignored, and shipping may be subsidised.

While we all want good value for our hard-earned €, you can't really have it both ways. A coda bow has a proven track record, you know what the company stands for, they state clearly what the bows are made from, use quality hair, give a guarantee etc. On the second hand market, it would still retain some decent value, as a branded product.

Or you can buy something you know very little about, because the price seems low. Hoping it would be better than a coda, for half price is a pure shot in the dark. I am sure if you give it some more thought, you will realise this too.
 

 

[Victor Roman]

32 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

To make a bow in the USA, where the workers have rights, are paid fairly for their work, and the factory has to comply with both safety & environmental concerns, comes with costs. In addition, there will be shipping, possible importation taxes etc. Therefore, taking all this into account, in reality, it would seem to be priced fairly.
Your local shop also has to spend their money, to buy in a coda, so it is there for you to try.

Something can be priced "fairly" and still be unreasonably expensive when compared with other similar offerings.  I have 2 Coda bows and they are very good - very predictable. We ( a sort of teachers' association ) bought cheap fiberglass and carbon fibre from China and with almost no exception, are excellent. Some years ago ( 2019 ? ) we bought a number of student violins from the same source - also excellent. "Better" at ten times the price is not worth the trouble. The customer does not have a duty to subsidize inefficiencies..............

[Stephen Fine]

The other cheaper carbon fiber bows have caught up to the CodaBows, yes.  You should at least try a couple in a head-to-head matchup.

[GeorgeH]

Used Coda Bows of various grades in good condition can regularly be found at the usual online sites selling for significant discounts to new ones.

[Altgeiger]

I've never played a Codabow that made a sound comparable to many much cheaper wood bows. With some digging, you can find a wood bow that performs and sounds better for the same money as a Coda. That being said, you can almost count on any Codabow off the rack to be able to do what you need for most orchestral playing, once you get used to it. 

So, they're overpriced, unless you don't have time to spend looking for a good wood bow; then they're priced about right.

[GeorgeH]

16 minutes ago, Altgeiger said:

With some digging, you can find a wood bow that performs and sounds better for the same money as a Coda.

I think that depends on what model Coda Bow you're comparing with inexpensive wood bows, and the tone of the particular bow (wood or CF) with the particular violin. 

My son uses a Coda Bow Luma model that performs superbly and sounds great on his violin. It retails for around $765, but he found his online for about $400. 

[Altgeiger]

46 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

that depends on what model Coda Bow you're comparing with inexpensive wood bows, and the tone of the particular bow (wood or CF) with the particular violin. 

Of course, anything like this should be prefaced by, "In my experience." But in my experience, what I said is so, for any model of Codabow.

[Mike_Danielson]

Bowmaker, here, who plays the cello.  My Nemesis is the Codabow diamond cello bow which sells for about $1000.  I cannot successfully rehair this bow--it is the stiffest bow I have ever measured the stiffness of.  I cannot put enough hair into it because the plastic frog does not have enough room under the slide.  Thus, the hair stretches prematurely--needs a rehair every few months.  The person who I rehaired their Diamond Codabow (over and over again) finally gave up and got a wood bow.

Surgeon Generals warning:  Codabows are overpriced.  I have played cello with a lot of them.   I suspect Codabow changes the properties of their bow models without announcing it.

Codabow makes all information proprietary about their bows--they will not even tell you such simple things as weight and balance point.   If you are on a budget, get a CF bow from Shar for $100.  Wood bows are better but cost more.

I am going to mention something that is surprising--the first generation of Codabows for violin were very good.  I have 2 of them.  They are almost impossible to find on the used market because no one will sell them.  

Edited August 26 by Mike_Danielson
spelling

[baroquecello]

As a cellist,  I never liked codabow. They felt unresponsive to me and I don't like the tone. I much prefer Carbondix bows, although they improvewith a proper rehair. I find wooden bows are still the best, but only at a much higher price point.

[jacobsaunders]

From my Luddist point of view, every plastic bow is by definition too expensive

[HoGo]

2 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

From my Luddist point of view, every plastic bow is by definition too expensive

But it will hold in your bgarden to hold tomato plants dor decades unlike the wooden ones, so maybe worth it after you decide to retire the stick.

[Spelman]

9 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

From my Luddist point of view, every plastic bow is by definition too expensive

Gotta get with the times homie!

[Mr. Bean]

Kinda easy to call out "this bow is not wood, synthetic, so plastic: it probably sounds like plastic, it cannot be any good".

Just for the record: I sold carbon bows to a complete section of a professional orchestra: the violinists were glad to trade in their Bazin, Nürnberger and other wooden bows for an Arcus #7 or 8. I know many violinists, violists, cellists and double bassists preferring their CodaBow over their (sometimes expensive) wooden bows.

Nothing against a nice wooden bow of course though!

Some carbon bows may be overpriced, but how about wooden bows showing up in fancy auctions!

Edited August 26 by Mr. Bean
omission

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, Spelman said:

Gotta get with the times homie!

I had an accident with my car, and discovered to my horror that much of the front part of my car is plastic too. One feels surrounded sometimes

[Dwight Brown]

33 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I had an accident with my car, and discovered to my horror that much of the front part of my car is plastic too. One feels surrounded sometimes

My whole car is plastic! 
 

DLB

[Spelman]

15 minutes ago, Dwight Brown said:

My whole car is plastic! 
 

DLB

Corvette? Bricklin?

[Mike_Danielson]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Just for the record: I sold carbon bows to a complete section of a professional orchestra: the violinists were glad to trade in their Bazin, Nürnberger and other wooden bows for an Arcus #7 or 8. I know many violinists, violists, cellists and double bassists preferring their CodaBow over their (sometimes expensive) wooden bows.

Arcus bows are in a special, unique, carbon fiber class.  Very expensive, very stiff, and very very light.  I would say that most players have trouble making the transition to the light weight.  

[phillip77]

Yes. 

[GeorgeH]

21 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Codabow makes all information proprietary about their bows--they will not even tell you such simple things as weight and balance point. 

Carbon fiber bows can vary slightly from bow to bow, even within the same model, so  it is worthwhile to try several before purchasing one.

In regards to "simple things as weight and balance point," they use a chart (example below) to describe qualitatively measurable characteristics of each bow model. I have never seen anything like that from any makers of wood bows. Have you?

As far as "overpriced," that all depends on the individual. The undeniable fact is that they have been in business for many years and have many satisfied customers so the bows are not "overpriced" for them. Many players like them, and get them re-haired without problems.

I  don't own any carbon fiber bows, but I have tried a few and I think that they can be excellent bows for the money. Some are remarkably good.