Taking off some grams from a bow, is it risky?

[Johnny Sun]

64 grams seems to be still within the range of a violin bow, but this bow does feel too heavy. A silver mounted Morizot freres, octagonal. Strong, maybe too much. The stick is well done, but the middle part feels heavy, and looks thick. The bow lacks of some flexibility and elegance. It is already with tinsel lapping. 

To me, it is a player's bow, no more than that. Good condition with wear, button not original. I feel it should play great, but not yet.

Questions:

1. Will you suggest the bow to lose weight(shave off some wood)?

2. Is it risky since it is irreversible?

3. Will this practice impact the value?

4. Any other alternatives? 

 

Thank you.

[Guido]

Taking wood off the stick seams outrageous.

You can try and use a silver wire instead of the tinsel to change the balance and make it feel lighter.

Else, sell it and get a bow you like.

[Brad Dorsey]

58 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

...Will you suggest the bow to lose weight(shave off some wood)?...

No.

 

58 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

...Is it risky since it is irreversible?...

Yes

 

58 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

...Will this practice impact the value?...

Yes.  It will reduce the value.

 

58 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

...Any other alternatives? ...

1.  Use the bow as it is.

2.  Get another bow.

[Wood Butcher]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

64 grams seems to be still within the range of a violin bow, but this bow does feel too heavy. A silver mounted Morizot freres, octagonal. Strong, maybe too much. The stick is well done, but the middle part feels heavy, and looks thick. The bow lacks of some flexibility and elegance. It is already with tinsel lapping. 

To me, it is a player's bow, no more than that. Good condition with wear, button not original. I feel it should play great, but not yet.

Questions:

1. Will you suggest the bow to lose weight(shave off some wood)?

2. Is it risky since it is irreversible?

3. Will this practice impact the value?

4. Any other alternatives? 

 

Thank you.

Only a complete simpleton would even consider this.

The idea “it looks thick”, so must be made thinner, to satisfy your ego, is disappointing. You risk ruining the bow forever, and destroying its value.

If you don’t like it, start looking for something else, and make sure to play them first. Buying bows unseen is going to result in a similar situation to the one above.
Once you have found something you like, sell or trade the Morizot.
 

[Guido]

P.S.: A good place to sell a bow like this would be some online auction where savvy online shoppers will pay a premium to feel smart.

But maybe a shift in balance closer to the handle will help. I have done this with a heavy French bow. Now it’s a couple of grams heavier but feels more agile (lighter).

[martin swan]

Is it a viola bow?

[nathan slobodkin]

All of the above.

[Blank face]

11 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

 

64 grams seems to be still within the range of a violin bow, but this bow does feel too heavy. A silver mounted Morizot freres, octagonal. Strong, maybe too much. The stick is well done, but the middle part feels heavy, and looks thick. The bow lacks of some flexibility and elegance. It is already with tinsel lapping. 

 

64 gr with tinsel is a light viola bow. With wire winding of a reasonable diameter and length it will get a weight of 67-69 grams easily.

[LCF]

Is it risky? It might be very risky if you did it while Wood butcher or Blank face were there in the same room. 

[Blank face]

13 minutes ago, LCF said:

Is it risky? It might be very risky if you did it while Wood butcher or Blank face were there in the same room. 

In fact I could care less about people destroying their musical instruments and burning their own money. It's a bit like coughing loudly during a concert, isn't it?

[Jwillis]

13 hours ago, Johnny Sun said:

button not original. I feel it should play great, but not yet.

If your button is not original there can be variation in the weight from one to another. Changing can perhaps make a difference in the playability of the bow. I just measured a half gram difference between some violin button screws I had laying around.  

[Brad Dorsey]

3 hours ago, Blank face said:

…I could care less about people destroying their musical instruments and burning their own money…

You could?

I couldn’t.

[duane88]

I think that the word that we are looking for here is: Vandalism.

That describes what he is suggesting. 

 

[chrissweden]

How is the winding and balance? I've replaced the winding on dozens of bows. If the head is somewhat heavier you could opt for silk winding and a shorter leather. FWIW Silk winding is ALWAYS the best option, solid winding is something modern makers invented to please the "60 gram only" "players".

[Mike_Danielson]

Johnny Sun, you ran into a wasp nest, but I am enjoying the fire from a safe distance.

Take the bow to a bow maker who will determine the bow's properties:  weight, balance point, stiffness.  Only then can you determine what can be done, and this will be minor things like changing the metal used in the adjuster, changing the winding, adding some weight or removing weight (if someone added it under the winding).  No one is going to plane the stick to remove wood--this would be like burning a religious book.    

If you can get no satisfaction, then sell it.

I have not been a fan of silk winding--it is too delicate for me.  

[Andrew Victor]

Several ways that I have had bow weights and balances changed:

1. replaced silver wire with faux whalebone; this reduced the mass of a "frog-heavy (65 gram) Richard Weichold violin bow by at least 3 grams

2. Replaced steel screw with titanium

3. added lead weight into the tip of a tip-light bow

In all cases the playing qualities changed in the directions I wanted with no detriment to the tone production.

[Blank face]

1 hour ago, Brad Dorsey said:

You could?

I couldn’t.

So we're on the same side

There was some talk in the past about idioms meaning one and it's opposite https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/could-couldnt-care-less

I would guess that the bow is from the period when there wasn't put so much weight on an absolute standard weight for bows as it is today.

[Johnny Sun]

13 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

Only a complete simpleton would even consider this.

The idea “it looks thick”, so must be made thinner, to satisfy your ego, is disappointing. You risk ruining the bow forever, and destroying its value.

If you don’t like it, start looking for something else, and make sure to play them first. Buying bows unseen is going to result in a similar situation to the one above.
Once you have found something you like, sell or trade the Morizot.
 

My friend, I am a professional musician, and an amateur bow collector who got into especially old French bows since years. This bow was purchased through an online auction, you are right. It was one of my first purchases, and it was not a total success. I later got better. 

There is no "ego" in this case, I know how the bow looks like, you don't. I asked the questions because one bow maker did shave off the wood to bring nice old bows which has a wrong weight better playability. Since there are so many professionals in this forum, I would love to hear opinions form others, whether this practice is normal.

Your answers is no, I appreciate it. But, you could actually say it in a nicer way, right?

Cheers

J

[Johnny Sun]

10 hours ago, martin swan said:

Is it a viola bow?

I tried to play it on the viola, not right at all. The strength of the stick is not enough, especially near the hear. It is in fact a good violin bow, just a bit heavy in the middle. 

[Johnny Sun]

I thank you all for your constructive suggestions. I found out something really interesting and I would like to share with you. It is my personal experience. 

I gained some weight in the past 5 years. The viola bow I loved so much was 73g, now it feels kind of heavy. I don't know whether my arm got heavier and my sound concept stayed the same, so I don't need such a heavy bow any more? I guess this could apply to this Morizot violin bow too. 

I will keep this bow untouched, until it finds a new owner who appreciate it.

Thank you again!

[martin swan]

20 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

I tried to play it on the viola, not right at all. The strength of the stick is not enough, especially near the hear. It is in fact a good violin bow, just a bit heavy in the middle. 

Perhaps it’s a bad viola bow …

[Blank face]

32 minutes ago, Johnny Sun said:

It is in fact a good violin bow, just a bit heavy in the middle. 

So the problem is solved, without removing anything.