Adjusting cello to improve sound.

[geoff1954]

The cello I play has a lovely tone. A modern Chinese one with a new set of Jargar strings. Just one problem, a 'muddy' sound in 4th position on the C string, and, to a lesser extent, on the G string. Any ideas how I could remedy this - without losing the pleasing tone in the the rest of the register. 

[baroquecello]

Difficult to say without having the cello at hand. First off, are those Jargar regulars, or are they the more modern ones (special, superior or the likes)? The regular ones have a muddy sound on the lower two strings on most celli. I'd change them out for something more recent. If it is not that, it could be a variety of things. You could start with some sound post fiddling around. If that doesn't do it, if you have a french bridge, a belgian one might help. The tail piece can have a huge impact. A Concarbo tail piece really helps the lower strings a lot on most celli. Otherwise try an Akustikus. Even the end pin material (bung or pin itself) willl have an effect, with the pure carbon fibre pin performing worst on most celli. Experimentation is key. Good luck!

[Claudio Rampini]

12 hours ago, baroquecello said:

If that doesn't do it, if you have a french bridge, a belgian one might help.

I have always used french bridges for my cello setups with good results, I don't have experience with belgian bridges because I think that they make a darker tone.

[nathan slobodkin]

1 hour ago, Claudio Rampini said:

I have always used french bridges for my cello setups with good results, I don't have experience with belgian bridges because I think that they make a darker tone.

My experience has been the opposite. Belgian bridges tend to brighten most cellos while French tend  toward a rounder, richer sound but with somewhat less power and projection. 

As to the OPs original question I would certainly try different strings, my default stringing being Spirochore tungsten C and G with Jargar or  Larsen uppers. I also have clients using Versums accross the board and I am fond of Belcanto C strings in place of the Spiro one.

As B-cello said many other things will affect tone and working with a qualified technician should be helpful.

[geoff1954]

Thanks, all three of you who have replied. You've provided plenty of good ideas for me to try. 

I'll start by changing the lower strings - I currently have 'old' Jargar - and the tailpiece. If no luck, the bridge and soundpost will come next. 

I'll report back with the results.

Thanks again.

Geoff

[baroquecello]

11 hours ago, Claudio Rampini said:

I have always used french bridges for my cello setups with good results, I don't have experience with belgian bridges because I think that they make a darker tone.

Well, ofcourse there is nothing wrong with a well made French bridge on the right cello for it. Belgian bridges do improve string response on many celli. The sound will be brighter but shrill on some celli. By the way, The Belgian bridge model actually is older than the French.  The French seems to have emerged somewhere just after the middle of the 19th century,  while the Belgian model seems based on bridges from England around 1800 (Google Forster bridge).

[Mark Norfleet]

3 minutes ago, baroquecello said:

The Belgian model seems based on bridges from England around 1800 (Google Forster bridge).

Some day, for the right instrument…, I’ll make one of those Forester model bridges.  I’ve always wondered if the reinforcement between the legs negatively affects sound.  An easier way to control leg spreading might be to put a hole and Kevlar cord between through the legs.

[Mark Norfleet]

11 hours ago, Claudio Rampini said:

I don't have experience with belgian bridges because I think that they make a darker tone.

When you do have some experience with Belgian bridges, I suggest your thinking will change.

[Brad Dorsey]

9 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

…to control leg spreading[,]…put…hole[s through the legs] and [a] Kevlar cord between…

Interesting idea.  Do you know of anyone doing that?

[baroquecello]

6 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

Some day, for the right instrument…, I’ll make one of those Forester model bridges.  I’ve always wondered if the reinforcement between the legs negatively affects sound.  An easier way to control leg spreading might be to put a hole and Kevlar cord between through the legs.

Milo stamm makes them still. https://milostamm.com/violoncello.htm

[Claudio Rampini]

1 hour ago, Mark Norfleet said:

When you do have some experience with Belgian bridges, I suggest your thinking will change.

Thank you for your advice, I never used a belgian bridge on my Strad model cellos, but I'll test it in the future.

[Mark Norfleet]

4 hours ago, baroquecello said:

Milo stamm makes them still. https://milostamm.com/violoncello.htm

Thanks!  I might have to buy a few for the Foresters I work on.

[Mark Norfleet]

5 hours ago, Brad Dorsey said:

Interesting idea.  Do you know of anyone doing that?

No.  It’s just an idea I’ve wanted to try for when I need to fit a bridge to a troublesome arching.