Johnny Sun Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 To dear expert bow makers or restorers: Here is a beautiful looking E.A. Ouchard cello bow that plays also amazingly. The condition report mentioned "cracks on both side cheeks". Later ammended to "break to head, splined". Nonetheless, a certificate with three "Tres Beau"s confirmed that it is a bow with top quality. When we received it, I checked carefully but it doesn't seem to have a splint. With naked eyes, cracks also can't be easily seen, although under strong light and ultraviolet, marks are shown. At the nose, the line goes through the head diagonally, at back of head, same line is also shown, however I am not sure the two sides go through. I emailed Mr Guillaume after I found out the damage, which is not consistent with the ammended condition report, and asked him whether a restoration with only glue can fix that heavy damage, he said no. He also confirmed if there is an only way which can fix a break without a spint outside, is would be a metal nail from inside. A rehair has been done by a professional in Japan soon after, he checked carefully inside and outside with strong torch and ultraviolet, he said he can find neither splint nor a nail inside. And he said if this bow did have a broken head, the guy who fixed it must have magical hands, since he could hardly see and trace. Questions: 1, From the pictures, you find a splint? 2, What kind of test should I take for the bow, to find out whether there is a nail inside? CT or X ray? 3, Where can I do it? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 "Magical hands, indeed!" Are you absolutely 100% sure that the cert goes with that bow? Did you get both the cert and the bow directly from the person who wrote the cert? Normally cheek splits would be blow-outs to the side, near the widest part of the plug mortise starting just under the head plate, and this is VERY different from damage that would require a spline, in a different place entirely, so I can't make those two descriptions merge into something that someone might have seen and then changed their mind about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 10 Author Report Share Posted August 10 34 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said: "Magical hands, indeed!" Are you absolutely 100% sure that the cert goes with that bow? Did you get both the cert and the bow directly from the person who wrote the cert? Normally cheek splits would be blow-outs to the side, near the widest part of the plug mortise starting just under the head plate, and this is VERY different from damage that would require a spline, in a different place entirely, so I can't make those two descriptions merge into something that someone might have seen and then changed their mind about. It is a Raffin certificate from recent years, it has a QR code, with which you could check the authenticity online. The cert could have been issued before the bow had an accident, which leads to the sell of the bow. And the bow came from an auction house with reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 I can see cheek repair on one side , probable mortice blow out and possible head spline to repair the slightly visible head break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 here i think suspicious areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 Looks like the end of the spline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Brown Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 I would think an X-ray might show something. If there is a helpful art museum or even a veterinarian. I have a feeling getting a human doctor to help unless you know then personally might be hard. Just a guess. DLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane88 Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 A beautiful and elegant repair. Play it as is, unless you want to return it. I am not sure that the repair could be improved upon, and while you could put pins/screws in from the mortice side, remember that the enemy of good is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzopiano Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 I suppose a strong magnet would react to a ferromagnetic nail inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Brown Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 If you could borrow a binocular dissection microscope like you would find in a high school science lab you might be able to see something. something like this https://a.co/d/dcJvrCp DLB O one of the small USB units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeissica Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 If it is being sold as a bow with these repairs, and priced accordingly, and plays beautifully, it seems difficult to go wrong. Always best to know the "worst case" either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/11/2024 at 11:19 PM, mezzopiano said: I suppose a strong magnet would react to a ferromagnetic nail inside. good idea, will try. Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/11/2024 at 11:28 PM, Dwight Brown said: If you could borrow a binocular dissection microscope like you would find in a high school science lab you might be able to see something. something like this https://a.co/d/dcJvrCp DLB O one of the small USB units. thank you for suggesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/10/2024 at 8:06 PM, fiddlecollector said: Looks like the end of the spline Thank you for checking carefully for me. The bow is not with me at the moment, but what I remember is I checked many times, so did a bow maker, both of us can't find a spline. Maybe the pictures are not high definition enf so some wood features seem to be a repair. Anyways, the situation is not that I bought it as a mint condition and later found out it is repaired at head. The price is a fraction of an Ouchard, and it plays great. Why I post this is just out of curiosity, how it has been repaired, and how come the repair is so invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/10/2024 at 9:43 PM, duane88 said: A beautiful and elegant repair. Play it as is, unless you want to return it. I am not sure that the repair could be improved upon, and while you could put pins/screws in from the mortice side, remember that the enemy of good is better. Yes, the repair is absolutely stunning. I am sure the guy treasures the quality of the bow, and tried his best to make the bow looks the same as before it had an accident. I am not playing it but my family member. She is super happy with the playing quality, even states it plays better than her Sartory:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sun Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 5 hours ago, Zeissica said: If it is being sold as a bow with these repairs, and priced accordingly, and plays beautifully, it seems difficult to go wrong. Always best to know the "worst case" either way. Yes, it was a good purchase, worths every dime been paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Danielson Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 I do not see a spline. There is a lesson in this--it is possible to repair bows in a way that makes it difficult to detect the repair. Fortunately, the seller revealed the repair, but this does not have to be the case. I remember a bow repair person who used short, broken, jig-saw blades for an internal spline. He would drill matching holes on both sides of the crack, near the crack tip. Fill with epoxy and clamp. The teeth on the blades would help hold the joint together. This repair would be hard to detect, but an x-ray or even a magnet would show the repair. Bows can be tricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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