elise2000 Posted August 9 Report Share Posted August 9 Hi all I have just acquired a bow with an “interesting” frog branded eclipse. just wondered if anyone knew the background behind the brand? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 9 Report Share Posted August 9 It seems to be a self rehair type frog of German origin (rails at the sides of the pearl slide). Could you show more views of frog and head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise2000 Posted August 9 Author Report Share Posted August 9 21 minutes ago, Blank face said: It seems to be a self rehair type frog of German origin (rails at the sides of the pearl slide). Could you show more views of frog and head? Here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 9 Report Share Posted August 9 Thanks. Yes, a German Abeille wood bow from the late 19th century in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise2000 Posted August 10 Author Report Share Posted August 10 8 hours ago, Blank face said: Thanks. Yes, a German Abeille wood bow from the late 19th century in my eyes. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 Interesting bow ,looks like the whole slide ,slides off towards the back of the frog. Does it move ,im interested how the hair is attached in the frog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 12 hours ago, Blank face said: It seems to be a self rehair type frog of German origin (rails at the sides of the pearl slide). Could you show more views of frog and head? Have you seen this model before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 I never saw this style before. From the two pictures, it is hard to tell how it all connects. Either the metal plate containing the slide comes off all in one, or the whole thing is connected to the ferrule, which would seem unlikely. Not sure that it could be of the self re-hairing type, I can't see how any of this would make that easy. Certainly an unusual model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 Pajeot made a style that the whole slide and ferrule were one piece and the end of the slide was held by a dovetail into the heelplate . This is different but obviously loosely based on Pajeot models. You can see the Pajeot one im refering to down this page in the link. https://stringsmagazine.com/closer-look-historical-bows-and-eccentric-frogs/ Im curious what the OP's bow looks like inside as i havent seen this one before.It maybe just normal and the rest is just decoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise2000 Posted August 10 Author Report Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, fiddlecollector said: Interesting bow ,looks like the whole slide ,slides off towards the back of the frog. Does it move ,im interested how the hair is attached in the frog. It does indeed slide off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 2 hours ago, fiddlecollector said: Have you seen this model before? Not exactly this, but there were several trademarks using a similar system. It is different to the French Vuillaume self rehair, with an attachment only at the frog. Unfortunately I never found one in the original state, with hair still present. The sticks (if original to the frogs) were almost always of a low quality, and the head mortice of a conventional shape. I have never seen any hanks of hair being meant for this type. Possibly there’s someone reading here being able to give more informations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, Wood Butcher said: I can't see how any of this would make that easy. Certainly an unusual model. It was a very short-living innovation, they are much rarer than the French type and obviously all from a late 19th/early 20th century period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 30 minutes ago, elise2000 said: It does indeed slide off Thanks, does the hair pull out ,is there a wedge or does it just push in and held in place by the slide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 23 minutes ago, Blank face said: It was a very short-living innovation, they are much rarer than the French type and obviously all from a late 19th/early 20th century period. Ive seen similar looking ones but with different slide arrangement etc... i cant find another of these on google. You would think there would be far more around ,as they are quite complicated to make and alot of trouble to go for if made in tiny quantities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 I saw one similar recently.... on a well known auction site that I'm not familiar with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 41 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said: Ive seen similar looking ones but with different slide arrangement etc... i cant find another of these on google. You would think there would be far more around ,as they are quite complicated to make and alot of trouble to go for if made in tiny quantities. 9 minutes ago, Gtone said: I saw one similar recently.... on a well known auction site that I'm not familiar with https://www.ebay.com/itm/186491764944 Similar here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/unusual-excelsior-german-violin-bow-1851765448 The Excelsior trademark is with a full metal lower slide and an accordingly made headplate. Another American patent is discussed here, opened frog and head mortice at the 2nd page: https://fiddlerman.com/forum/the-violin/mutant-violin-bow-frogs/ The OP is unique due to the pearl decoration of the slide. We didn't see the underside of the head yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 21 minutes ago, Gtone said: I saw one similar recently.... on a well known auction site that I'm not familiar with Yes ive had them in the past so the op one is just another variation only German. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 17 minutes ago, Blank face said: https://www.ebay.com/itm/186491764944 Similar here: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/unusual-excelsior-german-violin-bow-1851765448 The Excelsior trademark is with a full metal lower slide and an accordingly made headplate. Another American patent is discussed here, opened frog and head mortice at the 2nd page: https://fiddlerman.com/forum/the-violin/mutant-violin-bow-frogs/ The OP is unique due to the pearl decoration of the slide. We didn't see the underside of the head yet? The ones ive had ,had the hinge type tip plate. Should have looked on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 It wasn't the most empowering name.eclipse Thanks for the links, FC and Blank. very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted August 10 Report Share Posted August 10 7 hours ago, Michael Darnton said: That's it. Note that the patent number is the same as at the other bows with full metal plate. D.R. = Deutsches Reich Patent indicates that all of these might have been produced in Markneukirchen for all brands. Obviously the stick of the OP and others I have seen are unoriginal, missing the metal head face. Possibly the small cover of the mortice is a weak spot, it looks as if it can break off easily beyond repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wood Butcher Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 On 8/10/2024 at 10:58 AM, Blank face said: It was a very short-living innovation, they are much rarer than the French type and obviously all from a late 19th/early 20th century period. It is interesting to see. I wonder how these were priced, I would assume they were significantly more expensive than the regular bows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted August 11 Report Share Posted August 11 Theodor Stark in markneukirchen, apparently he was married to Natalie Pfretzschner ,daughter of Gustave Adolf Pfretzschner , he died in 1898 and she took over the business ,they were mostly wholesalers of musical instruments and related stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise2000 Posted August 11 Author Report Share Posted August 11 On 8/10/2024 at 2:17 PM, Michael Darnton said: Interesting to see, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elise2000 Posted August 11 Author Report Share Posted August 11 Thanks for the info everyone. Now I need to decide what to do with the bow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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