Gut strings for modern cello with fine tuners?

[MacCrimmon]

Migrating from Baroque cello to modern has brought with it some joint pain on account of the steel strings. I also miss the feel and action of gut. 

Can anyone recommend pure gut strings (not gut core and steel wound like Eudoxa) for A and D strings that have a steel ball end for fine tuners?

 

Thank you!

[baroquecello]

I know none. But you can just use the usual knot, and then use a little piece of leather to protect the knot. Make a little hole in a small piece of leather, for the string to go through it. Make sure the leather is sufficiently thick to protect the string. This works for newer fine tuners, but not for those terrible screw-on fine tuners. Those anyway are so bad for the sound that you should avoid using them. Fine tuners have little use for gut strings, so you could also just use a classic wooden tail piece.

An alternative, if you want to play modern strings that are a little more (but admittedly not much) gut like, is to use heavy (not regular) gauge Thomastik Dominant. 

[Mark Norfleet]

I've never seen an unwound gut string with a ball, They're always just straight or with a knot or loop.  I do sometimes make my own short small wood dowels for them though that I tie the string around to keep them from pulling through modern style tailpieces with wide slots.

Eudoxa strings aren't wound with steel, but rather other metals.

[MacCrimmon]

Thank you both1 Very helpful as always.

[Andrew Victor]

You could switch to modern "geared pegs" )(at least for A & D strings) and get the finer adjustments of "fine tuners" without the problems.

[Dave Slight]

1 hour ago, Andrew Victor said:

You could switch to modern "geared pegs" )(at least for A & D strings) and get the finer adjustments of "fine tuners" without the problems.

This does work for gut strings like Eudoxa & Oliv, but only successfully, if the strings don’t foul the pegs.
The plastic ribs, or ribbed aluminium part on the shank is not kind to gut strings, if they have to drag over another peg first.

[Mark Norfleet]

51 minutes ago, Dave Slight said:

This does work for gut strings like Eudoxa & Oliv, but only successfully, if the strings don’t foul the pegs.
The plastic ribs, or ribbed aluminium part on the shank is not kind to gut strings, if they have to drag over another peg first.

One trick I’ve used when a string rubs on a peg enough to cause damage is to use some thin plastic tubing on the string at the point of interference. Two or three centimeters is usually enough.  What I’ve always used is heat shrink tubing for electronics work.  It’s available in a wide variety of sizes and quickly solves the problem without having to relocate pegs.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

3 hours ago, Andrew Victor said:

You could switch to modern "geared pegs" )(at least for A & D strings) and get the finer adjustments of "fine tuners" without the problems.

You don't use geared pegs for gut strings, you don't need fine tuners with them

[Mark Norfleet]

41 minutes ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

You don't use geared pegs for gut strings, you don't need fine tuners with them

Many people use geared pegs with gut strings to simplify the task of tuning, especially when there are more than four strings.

[David Burgess]

1 hour ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

You don't use geared pegs for gut strings, you don't need fine tuners with them

Plenty of people do, and find the geared pegs to be quite satisfactory.

[MacCrimmon]

Again, I thank all you for your kind and thoughtful replies. I'll get some geared tuners.

[Strad O Various Jr.]

The people that recommended geared pegs are not baroque specialists, you don't need fine tuners or geared pegs with plain gut as the strings stretch more than modern strings and you have the effect of geared pegs but with plain wooden pegs and no fine tuners.

[jacobsaunders]

If you are using gut strings, you can tune perfectly with the traditional wooden pegs, and can put any fine tuners or “geared” pegs in the dustbin

[David Burgess]

5 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

If you are using gut strings, you can tune perfectly with the traditional wooden pegs,

Yes, but on cellos, this can require more force than some people with orthopedic problems like to use.

[Mark Norfleet]

4 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Yes, but on cellos, this can require more force than some people with orthopedic problems like to use.

Agreed.  I've even encountered a very experienced violinist who chose this route and was pleased.
Another consideration is that it can often be more economical to put in geared pegs than to bush well worn holes in order to put in traditional tapered pegs of a small enough diameter to work well.

[JacksonMaberry]

18 hours ago, Strad O Various Jr. said:

The people that recommended geared pegs are not baroque specialists, you don't need fine tuners or geared pegs with plain gut as the strings stretch more than modern strings and you have the effect of geared pegs but with plain wooden pegs and no fine tuners.

I'm a baroque specialist, and every HIP player I've turned on to machine pegs has been thrilled with them. They're always skeptical until their first concert, then they're in love with how easy it is to dial in a string that's gone out quickly and without fuss. 

They don't enjoy changing strings however haha

[jacobsaunders]

12 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

 

They don't enjoy changing strings however haha

I hope they go to “their” violin maker for that

[Mark Norfleet]

On 8/7/2024 at 11:19 PM, Strad O Various Jr. said:

The people that recommended geared pegs are not baroque specialists, you don't need fine tuners or geared pegs with plain gut as the strings stretch more than modern strings and you have the effect of geared pegs but with plain wooden pegs and no fine tuners.

Perhaps a better thing to suggest is that those who are purists don’t recommend them.  As Jackson points out, they’re mostly easier to use and more reliable. 

-Need- isn’t the concern, but rather the preference of those who have used geared pegs and grown to appreciate the benefits of using them.

And yes, in a grudging nod to Jacob’s wisdom, it’s a bit more trouble to change strings with geared pegs and I have broken a string when I unwittingly put a G string on a cello thinking it was a D.

I don’t encourage people to use gut strings on fine tunes as there are usually  good easy solutions.

[MacCrimmon]

On 8/7/2024 at 10:17 AM, Andrew Victor said:

You could switch to modern "geared pegs" )(at least for A & D strings) and get the finer adjustments of "fine tuners" without the problems.

Hi, Andrew.

 

I did just that and it's going quite well, thank you. After some 5 days of string stretching, that is... The ease on my left hand is a marked change and the tone of the gut strings, although not as penetrating, is quite warm without being muffled. I only play for myself, not as performer, so the minor decrease of volume will not be a problem.

[MacCrimmon]

On 8/8/2024 at 4:49 PM, JacksonMaberry said:

I'm a baroque specialist, and every HIP player I've turned on to machine pegs has been thrilled with them. They're always skeptical until their first concert, then they're in love with how easy it is to dial in a string that's gone out quickly and without fuss. 

They don't enjoy changing strings however haha

Hi, Jakson.

 

Agreed. My Baroque cello remains true to form; however my modern cello appreciates the technological advance.