Dings in fingerboard - how to remove

[Brad Dorsey]

8 hours ago, Victor Roman said:

I am thinking that the wood in the fingerboard may be contaminated by skin oils. Is this an issue ? Any simple way to remove those ?

Whenever I glue something to a fingerboard or frog, I clean the gluing surface with alcohol then with acetone, both applied repeatedly with a small brush.  Then I scratch the surface very lightly with a very sharp knife tip, trying to remove as little wood as possible, but also trying to be sure that the surface is clean and fresh.

 After this cleaning, I mask off the area that I want to fill with masking tape, because some of the fill will inevitably spill beyond the area that needs to be filled.  Then, after the fill has hardened and I go to level it and clean off the excess, when I get down to the tape I know that I am getting close to trimming off just about the right amount.

[Marty Kasprzyk]

Is Super glue better than epoxy?

I've been using a very hard bar top epoxy coating on all my fingerboards and none of them have had even the slightest evidence of any wear.

But nobody has played them more than a few minutes. 

[LCF]

1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Is Super glue better than epoxy?

I've been using a very hard bar top epoxy coating on all my fingerboards and none of them have had even the slightest evidence of any wear.

But nobody has played them more than a few minutes. 

There are quite a few newer polymer coatings around which are UV cured. They have a lot in common with 3d printer resins in that they go off very quickly under UV, often just from  sunlight and even the ones that don't stink are incredibly toxic before and during setting.  

[Andreas Preuss]

@Victor Roman

joining a little bit late here.

i sometimes wished certain violin maintenance repairs would be taught at violin conservatories. First thing: pulling bridges back in the upright position when needed. For the rest of maintenance work this would give musicians maybe a glimpse how difficult certain easy looking tasks are.

My advice for your problem would be to start on any flat wood piece, trying to produce long and evenly thin shavings. Learn to adjust the plane, know when the blade needs to be sharpened and know how to sharpen it to a razor blade cutting quality. Next step would be to perform the same on a piece of hardwood. Then the last ‘etude piece’ as a preparation is to make a round shape where in all cross sections top to bottom is the same without a scoop. The real problem is that you won’t have ‘the master yelling at you’ if things are not well done. 

Handling scrapers and files and sandpaper is next. 
 

Anyway, good luck

(as a side note I think many violin amateur players attempt to play too difficult pieces just to know how difficult they are and there is supposedly nothing wrong about it.) 

[Andreas Preuss]

On 7/27/2024 at 8:27 AM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

Is Super glue better than epoxy?

I've been using a very hard bar top epoxy coating on all my fingerboards and none of them have had even the slightest evidence of any wear.

But nobody has played them more than a few minutes. 

For anyone who knows washing machines made by Miele, they are durable over tens of years because the company makes Roboted tests for example opening doors to the point they fail through use. Like this they found best materials and constructions. (My mom used her first Miele something like 25 years)

I would think one could technically make the finger robot to test the wear properties of surface coatings. I am also playing with the thought of using an epoxy type of coating. Unfortunately dental filling material is just too expensive for this purpose. (And also a sort of not black enough)

Besides, may I ask which brand of epoxy you are using?

[Marty Kasprzyk]

13 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

For anyone who knows washing machines made by Miele, they are durable over tens of years because the company makes Roboted tests for example opening doors to the point they fail through use. Like this they found best materials and constructions. (My mom used her first Miele something like 25 years)

I would think one could technically make the finger robot to test the wear properties of surface coatings. I am also playing with the thought of using an epoxy type of coating. Unfortunately dental filling material is just too expensive for this purpose. (And also a sort of not black enough)

Besides, may I ask which brand of epoxy you are using?

I've been using Alumilite Corporation "Amazing Clear Cast" 2 part clear coating & casting resin. (www.alumilite.com)

Many other companies make similar epoxy coatings but I use this one because it is available in small quantities (8 FL oz.) so it is not too expensive.  Finger boards aren't very big and one kit will probably be all I will ever need.

I use Paulownia wood for my fingerboards.  It is a very soft low density wood and this epoxy coating protects it well. I leave it clear so the natual wood grain shows through.  Black color fillers might be available but I don't want my instruments to look like a funeral hearse.

[Nick Allen]

14 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

For anyone who knows washing machines made by Miele, they are durable over tens of years because the company makes Roboted tests for example opening doors to the point they fail through use. Like this they found best materials and constructions. (My mom used her first Miele something like 25 years)

I would think one could technically make the finger robot to test the wear properties of surface coatings. I am also playing with the thought of using an epoxy type of coating. Unfortunately dental filling material is just too expensive for this purpose. (And also a sort of not black enough)

Besides, may I ask which brand of epoxy you are using?

I just installed a Sono-wood FB on one of my new violins and I really like it. I think that it's just regular hardwood, like beech or something that's compressed and then impregnated with some kind of epoxy-like resin that also dyes it?

It is friendly to tool edges and cuts/sands really nice. 

[Andreas Preuss]

18 hours ago, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I've been using Alumilite Corporation "Amazing Clear Cast" 2 part clear coating & casting resin. (www.alumilite.com)

Many other companies make similar epoxy coatings but I use this one because it is available in small quantities (8 FL oz.) so it is not too expensive.  Finger boards aren't very big and one kit will probably be all I will ever need.

I use Paulownia wood for my fingerboards.  It is a very soft low density wood and this epoxy coating protects it well. I leave it clear so the natual wood grain shows through.  Black color fillers might be available but I don't want my instruments to look like a funeral hearse.

Thanks, Marty.

[Victor Roman]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:32 AM, Andreas Preuss said:

@Victor Roman

joining a little bit late here.

i sometimes wished certain violin maintenance repairs would be taught at violin conservatories. First thing: pulling bridges back in the upright position when needed. For the rest of maintenance work this would give musicians maybe a glimpse how difficult certain easy looking tasks are.

My advice for your problem would be to start on any flat wood piece, trying to produce long and evenly thin shavings. Learn to adjust the plane, know when the blade needs to be sharpened and know how to sharpen it to a razor blade cutting quality. Next step would be to perform the same on a piece of hardwood. Then the last ‘etude piece’ as a preparation is to make a round shape where in all cross sections top to bottom is the same without a scoop. The real problem is that you won’t have ‘the master yelling at you’ if things are not well done. 

Handling scrapers and files and sandpaper is next. 
 

Anyway, good luck

(as a side note I think many violin amateur players attempt to play too difficult pieces just to know how difficult they are and there is supposedly nothing wrong about it.) 

Mr. Preuss, thank you very much for your thoughtful advice. I ordered a couple of tools and once they arrive, I'll start practicing with them. Also, I asked an acquaintance to send me a couple of pieces of good, proper ebony, in case I will tackle making a fingerboard from scratch. I am somehow familiar with good sharpening as I shaved for many years with a straight razor I sharpen myself on a stone with oil, followed by two strops.  

[Victor Roman]

18 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

I just installed a Sono-wood FB on one of my new violins and I really like it. I think that it's just regular hardwood, like beech or something that's compressed and then impregnated with some kind of epoxy-like resin that also dyes it?

It is friendly to tool edges and cuts/sands really nice. 

I am curious if this Sono-wood FB has any advantages over traditional ones and if that is the case, what would it cost ? How do you glue it to the neck ? Epoxy glue ?

[Davide Sora]

1 hour ago, Victor Roman said:

I am curious if this Sono-wood FB has any advantages over traditional ones and if that is the case, what would it cost ? How do you glue it to the neck ? Epoxy glue ?

They say it all in their fliers, it seems there are no resins, synthetic materials, or dyes added, just a particular process of compressing the wood. They don't say anything about the glue to use, which makes me assume that the usual hide glue works. Maybe those who have used it can be more reliable. I've never used these fingerboards, but if I were to switch to alternative materials to ebony I think Sonowood would be first on the list.

https://swisswoodsolutions.github.io/assets/docs/Sonowood_Strings_EN.pdf

 

[FiddleDoug]

3 hours ago, Victor Roman said:

I am curious if this Sono-wood FB has any advantages over traditional ones and if that is the case, what would it cost ? How do you glue it to the neck ? Epoxy glue ?

NEVER epoxy!!!

[jacobsaunders]

3 hours ago, Victor Roman said:

I am curious if this Sono-wood FB has any advantages over traditional ones and if that is the case, what would it cost ? How do you glue it to the neck ? Epoxy glue ?

A few years ago, a very good friend of mine – he sat at the next bench but one too me at violin making school, and 20 years later I employed his daughter – showed me a new violin of his with a compressed-wood fingerboard, which he tried very hard to convince me about. I referred to his IKEA model violin, and he was pretty pissed off. Anyway, he hasn’t spoken to me for years

[Sammyo]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:32 AM, Andreas Preuss said:

...

i sometimes wished certain violin maintenance repairs would be taught at violin conservatories. First thing: pulling bridges back in the upright position when needed. For the rest of maintenance work this would give musicians maybe a glimpse how difficult certain easy looking tasks are.

...

I had not considered pulling a bridge back into the upright position to be a particularly challenging task and it is something that I have often done.  This is definitely something I do myself (though I have been so far - despite my temptations  - been persuaded by our luthiers not to attempt fitting a new bridge or adjusting the soundpost, let alone planing a fingerboard).  Are you suggesting that even "uprighting" a bridge should be left to the experts?  Perhaps I am doing this wrong as well.

[Andreas Preuss]

20 hours ago, Sammyo said:

I had not considered pulling a bridge back into the upright position to be a particularly challenging task and it is something that I have often done.  This is definitely something I do myself (though I have been so far - despite my temptations  - been persuaded by our luthiers not to attempt fitting a new bridge or adjusting the soundpost, let alone planing a fingerboard).  Are you suggesting that even "uprighting" a bridge should be left to the experts?  Perhaps I am doing this wrong as well.

Quite the contrary. I know many violinists who are afraid to pull a bridge back. I think it would be a good idea to teach how to do it correctly to take the fear away.

[Andreas Preuss]

On 7/28/2024 at 4:07 PM, Marty Kasprzyk said:

I've been using Alumilite Corporation "Amazing Clear Cast" 2 part clear coating & casting resin. (www.alumilite.com)

Just by the way:

The elegant solution would be to use Japanese Urushi lacquer. It’s an amazing natural coating, very hard, wear resistant and as far as I know also resistant to acids such as nitric acid. 
 

While making black lacquer coatings seems to be pretty work intensive, a transparent coating for your application seems to be not that difficult.

 

[Mark Norfleet]

On 7/25/2024 at 3:57 PM, Victor Roman said:

I asked a question and I got superfluous advice ( take it to the violin maker... ) and some attempts at sarcastic humor. Wasn't looking for this but then, so be it - it tells me with whom to interact in the future and who should I avoid.

Respectfully..., you received a lot of superfluous advice relative to your practical needs, some of which you have decided to follow, that gives you and others an indication of the level of difficulty and importance of this job being done well.  I would like to suggest that in the future you give the full context of the situation and the value of the instrument when you ask questions.  Those details can make a big difference in receiving the appropriate information.

An aside from re-reading this thread..., sharpening a straight razor is a good skill to have and a worthwhile foundation, but is vastly easier than sharpening a plane iron, especially the way I sharpen mine for this task.

[Victor Roman]

57 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

Respectfully..., you received a lot of superfluous advice relative to your practical needs, some of which you have decided to follow, that gives you and others an indication of the level of difficulty and importance of this job being done well.  I would like to suggest that in the future you give the full context of the situation and the value of the instrument when you ask questions.  Those details can make a big difference in receiving the appropriate information.

An aside from re-reading this thread..., sharpening a straight razor is a good skill to have and a worthwhile foundation, but is vastly easier than sharpening a plane iron, especially the way I sharpen mine for this task.

Mr. Norfleet, rest assured please, that I took your advice to heart. And thank you for taking the time to give me some guidance. Some of the tools I ordered already arrived, some are on their way - when all is with me I will start practicing the sharpening and hope I will get it to a standard you may find acceptable. Once I am ready to go I will post some pictures.

Again, thank you.