Lilian Kelly Posted July 21 Report Share Posted July 21 Hello. I have a cello which is thought to be a German cello from around 1850 and a Stainer copy. It is very unusual because I have never seen such high arching on a cello before. I wondered what your thoughts are, and any comments? It has a beautiful back and sounds lovely too. It is 73.3 cm LOB. Apart from the Stainer copy label, it seems to have been in Belgium around the turn of the century ( 1911 repair label) and then all around France in more recent years. I am curious to find out more. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted July 21 Report Share Posted July 21 A cello from the Markneukirchen area from the last part of the 19th C (aka the "usual") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguntde Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 If you had made a scroll and it came out like this wouldn't you rather discard it and make a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 41 minutes ago, uguntde said: If you had made a scroll and it came out like this wouldn't you rather discard it and make a new one? Probably not, if I had never been exposed to much nicer scrolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 The industry didn’t work like this. Body and scroll weren’t made by the same persons. A Halsmacher had to deliver a certain amount of scroll/necks within a certain time, and couldn’t afford to discard one. Similar applied to those putting box and neck together, they might not have had much resources and time to be that picky. Within the style and limitations of that system it’s an ok scroll, like thousands of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, uguntde said: If you had made a scroll and it came out like this wouldn't you rather discard it and make a new one? If I were making a fake scroll to match with a cello like that, i would be quite proud of myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 I have one from the same Halsmacher ,I've grown fond of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 16 hours ago, jacobsaunders said: If I were making a fake scroll to match with a cello like that, i would be quite proud of myself "With a cello like that?" Like what? Nothing wrong with the cello, it sounds great. The scroll doesn't affect its sound. 16 hours ago, Gtone said: I have one from the same Halsmacher ,I've grown fond of it. Is this a German instrument as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altgeiger Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 49 minutes ago, Lilian Kelly said: "With a cello like that?" Like what? Nothing wrong with the cello, it sounds great. You'll have to excuse Jacob. He doesn't believe in tact, but he knows quite a lot, and we value him on that basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 I don’t understand what’s offensive in defending the scroll of the cello, saying one would be proud to make one “like that”???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 4 hours ago, Altgeiger said: You'll have to excuse Jacob. He doesn't believe in tact, but he knows quite a lot, and we value him on that basis. 2 hours ago, Blank face said: I don’t understand what’s offensive in defending the scroll of the cello, saying one would be proud to make one “like that”???? Oh, I thought he was being sarcastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 4 hours ago, Altgeiger said: You'll have to excuse Jacob. He doesn't believe in tact, but he knows quite a lot, and we value him on that basis. 24 minutes ago, Lilian Kelly said: Oh, I thought he was being sarcastic! We do value the comments. Thank you, Jacob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 6 hours ago, Lilian Kelly said: "With a cello like that?" Like what? Nothing wrong with the cello, it sounds great. The scroll doesn't affect its sound. That could be true, depending on your personal taste in sound, and whether or not you think there can be more to an instrument than sound alone. 4 hours ago, Blank face said: I don’t understand what’s offensive in defending the scroll of the cello, saying one would be proud to make one “like that”???? Nor do I. It might indeed be quite a challenge to copy a scroll like that, if one didn't inherently work in that style. 1 hour ago, Lilian Kelly said: Oh, I thought he was being sarcastic! Not always easy to know for sure, with Jacob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 Just now, David Burgess said: Perhaps so, depending on your personal taste in sound, and whether or not you think there can be more to an instrument than sound alone. Nor do I. It might indeed be quite a challenge to copy a scroll like that, if one didn't inherently work in that style. Not always easy to know for sure, with Jacob. I agree. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 1 minute ago, Lilian Kelly said: I agree. :/ I haven't seen a scroll like that before, but looking around, quite a few from Neukirchen look the same sort of shape and are quite petite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 It looks lovely. The scroll is part of its character! Not all scrolls need to look alike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, Blank face said: I don’t understand what’s offensive in defending the scroll of the cello, saying one would be proud to make one “like that”???? 4 hours ago, Altgeiger said: You'll have to excuse Jacob. He doesn't believe in tact, but he knows quite a lot, and we value him on that basis. 3 minutes ago, Rue said: It looks lovely. The scroll is part of its character! Not all scrolls need to look alike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilian Kelly Posted July 24 Author Report Share Posted July 24 Yes, it is very petite. It reminds me of this Neukirchen instrument, although probably not so old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 7 hours ago, Lilian Kelly said: Is this a German instrument as well? Yes Lilian from the same era as yours maybe a little later. Maybe a Hopf or Klotz was in the vicinity of the Halsmacher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank face Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 16 hours ago, Gtone said: Yes Lilian from the same era as yours maybe a little later. Maybe a Hopf or Klotz was in the vicinity of the Halsmacher? Surely not a Klotz. Klo(t)z was Mittenwald/Bavaria, Hopf Saxony. A subtle difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 6 hours ago, Blank face said: Surely not a Klotz. Klo(t)z was Mittenwald/Bavaria, Hopf Saxony. A subtle difference. yes I was thinking about just their inspiration for the scroll not the making methods or anything. Like these Klotz scrolls here; https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=1104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 26 minutes ago, Gtone said: yes I was thinking about just their inspiration for the scroll not the making methods or anything. Like these Klotz scrolls here; https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/browse-the-archive/makers/maker/?Maker_ID=1104 If you like looking at Kloz scrolls, you should perhaps look here Warenkorb : der Holfter GmbH im Online-Buchshop but be careful not to confuse Markneukirchen & Mittenwald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtone Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said: If you like looking at Kloz scrolls, you should perhaps look here Warenkorb : der Holfter GmbH im Online-Buchshop but be careful not to confuse Markneukirchen & Mittenwald I Like Klotz family violins, especially Matthias Klotz.I am getting better at general ID, but will ask here if I'm stuck. Violin books are very cost prohibitve for me,but I thank you for link. I usually end spending the money on another bow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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